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Old February 8 2014, 05:24 PM   #76
The Mighty Monkey of Mim
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Re: New Orleans-Class

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
The accuracy of these sculptures may be debatable but the sculptor got the Enterprise-C to look rather exactly like the one on the side view Andrew Probert provided:

Yes, and as has already been pointed out, the filming miniature was based on that same design, modified so as to be easier to build. (This happened with at least one of Probert's shuttlecraft designs as well, IIRC.) In-universe, they both represent the same ship of the same design, despite the real-world differences. Fortunately for those who require "explanations" for such things, there is a much more straightforward and sensible one than what you suggest, as none of those wall models is particularly accurate to the filming miniature of the ship it represents, and there would be no reason why it would need be, since it is a piece of decorative art, not a technical diagram.
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Old February 14 2014, 02:41 AM   #77
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Re: New Orleans-Class

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post

Wait... Is there anything in the episodes or legible text that indicates those are Enterprises? How do we know it just isn't a series of historical ships? After all, the top image is the pre-First Contact conjectural Cochrane's first warp ship. Maybe it's just ships... not to mention... that's not the Enterprise-B...

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Old February 14 2014, 02:55 AM   #78
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Re: New Orleans-Class

Here's the chart:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ar...e-display1.jpg

As you can see, while it does have the class names, it doesn't say they are the Enterprises, even though that's obviously its intent...if it were just a display of random Starfleet vessels, why not show the Miranda or the Oberth or the Constellation or the Nebula? The old wall display didn't have ship names either, but the original intent at the time was that they were all the Enterprises too, just like the intent of this one. And of course, this chart got invalidated as well once we saw both the Enterprise-B and the Phoenix on screen. This is just another example of older information of lesser substance being invalidated by newer information of greater substance.
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Old February 14 2014, 04:52 AM   #79
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Re: New Orleans-Class

Although as Albertese pointed out, the display in DS9 doesn't explicitly state these are the Enterprises and thus it really isn't invalidated by newer information. As to the wall models, the simpler explanation is that they're artwork and not highly detailed and accurate models which again doesn't invalidate it.
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Old February 14 2014, 05:33 PM   #80
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Re: New Orleans-Class

Incidentally, I notice that Sisko's models of the Saratoga and Daedalus (class) are in the screenshot too. Perhaps Jake was doing a show-n-tell later that day.

I think the intent was not necessarily to show ENTERPRISES, but just starships. After all, this was a piece of set dressing after all and we aren't supposed to read too much into it. The context of the poster suggests to me that it wants to describe how starships have been used to explore the galaxy from the first warp ship (Bonaventure at the time according to Okuda, Sternbach et. al.) through classes that are seen as the "backbone" of the "Star Fleet", per the poster. If you were to post the biggest and best starships through various eras of the Fleet, of course you'd use the biggest and most recognizable (or most publicized) ones out there - the "queens" of the fleet, as it were. The fact that an Enterprise was each one of them is academic.

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Old February 15 2014, 10:18 PM   #81
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Re: New Orleans-Class

I've enjoyed reading through these discussions, but I have a question...how do we know a Galaxy-class was present and destroyed at Wolf 359? As far as I know, Admiral Hanson never left the Melbourne and died on it when it was destroyed, as depicted in the opening sequence of the DS9 pilot "Emissary". IIRC, Tigger's Ships of the Star Fleet described Melbourne as a newbuild Excelsior meant as a command ship.

Regarding the OP of the purpose of the three bolt-on pods on the New Orleans-class, yep, I agree that they are auxiliary torpedo pods with their own substantial magazines. Whether they were mission-specific to that particular ship that fought at Wolf 359 or typical of the New Orleans-class itself is unknown. Tigger's Ships of the Star Fleet suggests that the New Orleans-class was constructed without torpedo tubes, but as we've also seen the tubes used to launch probes, it seems unusual that such an obvious design flaw would make it out of the ASDB, even if the ship was designed in peaceful times. Plus, side-views of the N.O. suggest a torpedo tube in the base of the connecting dorsal a la Galaxy-class, with the same type of structure there that the Galaxy has. I can see additional bolt-on torpedo modules to bolster the offensive capability of this class during the Cardassian troubles of the 2350s, but I am inclined to think that this particular ship shown in the aftermath of Wolf 359 was a mission-specific torpedo spammer. Maybe not necessarily meant for the Borg; after all, the Borg weren't supposed to show up for some time, according to onscreen dialogue, but a ship meant to toss out tons of torpedoes on any threat that happened to show up in Earth's vicinity.
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Old February 16 2014, 07:29 AM   #82
Dukhat
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Re: New Orleans-Class

SicOne wrote: View Post
I've enjoyed reading through these discussions, but I have a question...how do we know a Galaxy-class was present and destroyed at Wolf 359? As far as I know, Admiral Hanson never left the Melbourne and died on it when it was destroyed, as depicted in the opening sequence of the DS9 pilot "Emissary". IIRC, Tigger's Ships of the Star Fleet described Melbourne as a newbuild Excelsior meant as a command ship.
When did someone say a Galaxy was at Wolf 359? Did I miss something?
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Old February 17 2014, 12:14 AM   #83
SicOne
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Re: New Orleans-Class

^ Blip, in post #46.

"Apart from some Nebulas, I see no evidence of this thus far. Was an official list ever provided, including vessel classes and reg numbers? ETA: Apologies, I just did a quick check and it seems Adml Hanson's flagship was supposed to be a Galaxy, though it remains unnamed so far as I know. Having said that though, it is only one ship!"
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Old February 17 2014, 02:28 AM   #84
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Re: New Orleans-Class

SicOne wrote: View Post
I've enjoyed reading through these discussions, but I have a question...how do we know a Galaxy-class was present and destroyed at Wolf 359? As far as I know, Admiral Hanson never left the Melbourne and died on it when it was destroyed, as depicted in the opening sequence of the DS9 pilot "Emissary". IIRC, Tigger's Ships of the Star Fleet described Melbourne as a newbuild Excelsior meant as a command ship.

Regarding the OP of the purpose of the three bolt-on pods on the New Orleans-class, yep, I agree that they are auxiliary torpedo pods with their own substantial magazines. Whether they were mission-specific to that particular ship that fought at Wolf 359 or typical of the New Orleans-class itself is unknown. Tigger's Ships of the Star Fleet suggests that the New Orleans-class was constructed without torpedo tubes, but as we've also seen the tubes used to launch probes, it seems unusual that such an obvious design flaw would make it out of the ASDB, even if the ship was designed in peaceful times. Plus, side-views of the N.O. suggest a torpedo tube in the base of the connecting dorsal a la Galaxy-class, with the same type of structure there that the Galaxy has. I can see additional bolt-on torpedo modules to bolster the offensive capability of this class during the Cardassian troubles of the 2350s, but I am inclined to think that this particular ship shown in the aftermath of Wolf 359 was a mission-specific torpedo spammer. Maybe not necessarily meant for the Borg; after all, the Borg weren't supposed to show up for some time, according to onscreen dialogue, but a ship meant to toss out tons of torpedoes on any threat that happened to show up in Earth's vicinity.
If you run the tape on slow motion. At the end when Admiral Hansen message suddenly get cut off and before all communications is lost. You will see a Galaxy class starship battle bridge. That is why there is believe to be a Galaxy class starship at the battle of Wolf 359. I myself don't believe that Admiral Hansen flagship was a Galaxy Class or the USS. Melbourne. The bridge he was on, look like a bridge of a older class starship. Also the USS. Melbourne was destroyed at the beginning of the battle and the Galaxy class was still in operation when Admiral Hansen ship was destroy.
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Old February 17 2014, 05:02 AM   #85
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Re: New Orleans-Class

Yeah, Hanson's ship was supposed to use the same sets as the Enterprise in the initial script, though when he shows up on screen, it looks more like the set has a railing like an Excelsior class bridge.
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Old February 17 2014, 06:37 AM   #86
Dukhat
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Re: New Orleans-Class

yenny wrote: View Post
If you run the tape on slow motion. At the end when Admiral Hansen message suddenly get cut off and before all communications is lost. You will see a Galaxy class starship battle bridge. That is why there is believe to be a Galaxy class starship at the battle of Wolf 359. I myself don't believe that Admiral Hansen flagship was a Galaxy Class or the USS. Melbourne. The bridge he was on, look like a bridge of a older class starship. Also the USS. Melbourne was destroyed at the beginning of the battle and the Galaxy class was still in operation when Admiral Hansen ship was destroy.
I'll have to do this tomorrow, but I don't recall ever seeing a Galaxy style battle bridge before. And anyway, is the Galaxy class the only ship with a battle bridge?

Nob Akimoto wrote: View Post
Yeah, Hanson's ship was supposed to use the same sets as the Enterprise in the initial script, though when he shows up on screen, it looks more like the set has a railing like an Excelsior class bridge.
It also had the TMP-style red-alert graphic.
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Old February 17 2014, 02:51 PM   #87
Robert Comsol
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Re: New Orleans-Class

The Mighty Monkey of Mim wrote: View Post
Fortunately for those who require "explanations" for such things, there is a much more straightforward and sensible one than what you suggest, as none of those wall models is particularly accurate to the filming miniature of the ship it represents, and there would be no reason why it would need be, since it is a piece of decorative art, not a technical diagram.
I'd like to think that the straightforward and sensible rationalization approach is the one I communicated especially in the latest Part IV of my treatise.

And although I'll now be jumping (here) to an observation I will yet have to publish "there", please consider the signature down below of my avatar (Captain Picard quote).

The wall sculpture decorates his conference lounge and proudly displays the lineage and "ancestors" of his starship.

To suggest that the Enterprise-C - unlike the other Enterprise ships - is a "falsified" or inaccurate reproduction of the real thing would be totally inacceptable for a man who cherishes the truth above all other things, IMO.

@ Dukhat

We've seen the Enterprise-D's battle bridge in the pilot episode and BoBW. Are you referring to something differently?

Bob
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Old February 17 2014, 03:27 PM   #88
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Re: New Orleans-Class

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post

I'd like to think that the straightforward and sensible rationalization approach is the one I communicated especially in the latest Part IV of my treatise.
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Old February 17 2014, 05:23 PM   #89
Dukhat
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Re: New Orleans-Class

After watching the scene with Hanson again, one can hardly make out that the battle bridge set was even used for the scene. I see a railing, the TMP-style red alert graphic, and part of some piece of set dressing. Hanson himself and the red alert display take up most of the visual, so it is not any kind of proof whatsoever that his ship is a Galaxy.

Of course, since there's no definitive list of what ships were at the battle other than the ten or so we saw on screen, one cannot say for certain if a Galaxy was in the battle. But I personally prefer that there wasn't.
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Old February 17 2014, 11:42 PM   #90
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Re: New Orleans-Class

If anything the scene with Hanson seems to prove it's NOT a Galaxy-class ship he's aboard, particularly since we clearly see the Battle Bridge set in the same episode and it looks nothing like the one Hanson is on. Either the director thought better of the script's intent, or something else happened, but either way the end result is that they're different bridge types.

It would seem to me to make more sense to assume he's actually on the Excelsior that brought him and Shelby to the Enterprise-D.
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