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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old January 31 2014, 11:50 PM   #31
Dale Sams
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Re: Threshold

That infinite velocity stuff doesn't even make sense. They need a new scale then. If Warp 10 ISNT the speed of light times 10 to the fourth power...then they are in dire need of a new scale
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Old February 1 2014, 12:20 AM   #32
MacLeod
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Re: Threshold

Well the episode certainly made an impression.
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Old February 1 2014, 12:31 AM   #33
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Re: Threshold

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Well the episode certainly made an impression.
So did "Spock's Brain"!
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Old February 1 2014, 12:32 AM   #34
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Re: Threshold

Both over maligned by folk who don't want pulp in their Trek.

PULP ADDS FIBER PEOPLE
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Old February 1 2014, 02:01 AM   #35
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Re: Threshold

in this case, the kind of fiber that makes you blow chunks
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Old February 1 2014, 11:27 AM   #36
MacLeod
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Re: Threshold

Well we tend to remember the best and worst things. Average just fades into a sea of average.
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Old February 1 2014, 12:34 PM   #37
C.E. Evans
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Re: Threshold

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
That infinite velocity stuff doesn't even make sense. They need a new scale then. If Warp 10 ISNT the speed of light times 10 to the fourth power...then they are in dire need of a new scale
IIRC, the original intent was to simplify the warp scale by making Warp 10 an absolute value that was impossible for anyone to reach--not even the Q could go that fast (although they'd get awfully close in the Warp 9.9999999+ range). But "Threshold" made something of a mess of that original rule.

Under "Eu(gene)'s Limit," anything between Warp 9.1 to Warp 9.9 would have been more than fast enough for our heroes to get where they needed in an emergency (i.e., bat outta hell speed), but there was too much of a temptation by writers to go even faster and we got "Threshold" as a result.
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Old February 1 2014, 05:24 PM   #38
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Re: Threshold

You know, if you read the synopsis, it doesn't sound HORRIBLE (imho)...it's certainly chock-full of sci-fi.

But they certainly should have done something to show that they really didn't reach Warp 10. So Paris turned into a salamander? Big deal. Keep trying. Or have EVERYONE go to Earth and get the anti-proton treatment. Or just use the tech to explore the universe by remote. It opens up a bigger can of worms than being able to beam to Qo'Nos that's for sure.
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Old February 1 2014, 06:18 PM   #39
USS Excelsior
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Re: Threshold

It was a crappily thought out episode. Individuals don't evolve, a species does, and that evolution is open ended to what environment they're subjected to.
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Old February 2 2014, 01:14 AM   #40
Hober Mallow
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Re: Threshold

I'm not sure why it was always so difficult for Trek writers to grasp even the basics of evolution. It wasn't just VOY, either; TNG embarrassed itself with "Genesis," and ENT did the same with "Dear Doctor."
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Old February 2 2014, 03:44 AM   #41
Guy Gardener
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Re: Threshold

I thought Dear doctor was about two completely different species evolving on the same planet, like a horse is not a human being but we are both on the same planet and one of us is top dog. The genetic fuck up that they thought was a plague which was killing off the top dog species was just some random shitty thing that happened. Dar Doctor was about social evolution more so than genetic evolution that the bitch (following the canine metaphor, that is the correct word.) race would be a slave class until the other died out.
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Old February 2 2014, 06:20 PM   #42
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Re: Threshold

Two things.

With Dear Doctor I really didn't get the impression that the second species (that we meet) on the planet was a "slave race." Rather, species two were the local downtrodden, limited in where they could live, but they could walk into town and look for work.

I think Denobulan's (and perhaps others too) had figure out pieces of the puzzle that would be reveal in the episode The Chase. Phlox knew that some species were pre-programmed (somehow) to "evolve" into highly intelligent sapient humanoids. He was able to recognize in the second species the genetic markers that indicated they possessed this pre-programming. Phlox knew where their evolutionary journey was going, and what the result was going to one day be.

Second thing.

With Threshold, they have a super fast propulsion that can get them back to Earth basically instantly, but the crew will start to turn into salamanders, but the Doctor has a cure for that.

So, why not install the propulsion in Voyager, go home, and have the Doctor cure the entire crew, the same way he did with Janeway and Paris?

For the federation and Starfleet, the warp ten drive would come with just another medical problem, that they know how to treat.

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Old February 2 2014, 06:25 PM   #43
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Re: Threshold

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
So Paris turned into a salamander? Big deal. Keep trying. Or have EVERYONE go to Earth and get the anti-proton treatment. Or just use the tech to explore the universe by remote.
Or go at warp 9.lotsofnines, get home in a week instead of instantly and avoid newtification.
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Old February 2 2014, 06:59 PM   #44
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Re: Threshold

^But then the show would be over.
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Old February 2 2014, 07:50 PM   #45
Guy Gardener
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Re: Threshold

Janeway and Paris went to a near by planet that Voyager found at conventional speeds with their puny warp drive after a few days. Considering that Chakotay couldn't track the shuttle at transwarp, isn't it convenient that they could ping the shuttle's transponder on long range scans becuase there is no other way that they could have found that ship other than with blind luck.

Does that mean that Tom was getting stupider as the process towards Salamander continued, or did he want Voyager to find him and his mate after Janeway had given birth?

Slave wages in a free society can equate to the equivilency of a slave race.

Do you feel happy that a man will almost always get paid more for the same work for any job you might get? It might be getting better, but you can still smell where it used to be worse.

Social boundaries, class structures and glass ceilings.

Phlox got on his moral high horse because he believed that the sub species here was proably treated no better than than African Ameicans were in the 1930s. Free but still lower class. They only had access to low paying jobs, that a white person wouldn't do, and if a white person did do, they would have been paid double.

The subordinate Aliens would continue to be dominated and opressed becuase they were colossally outnumbered, and treated like the unclean in Aisan culture. Phlox couldn't see an out for them other than the complete destruction of the species holding their leashes, giving them lebensraum.

Although, if they were all super geniuses like Phlox suggested, once they figured out how dumb the master race oppressing them was, it wouldn't be that difficult to rise up and take over thier overloard masters? Not even through violence, but if even the least of them was the social equivilent of a 20th century multimillionaire, it's pretty easy to see that they would be the %1 running things even if the abusive thug race prancing about like they owned the planet didn't realise the change in regime had left them quite castrated.
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