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Old January 28 2014, 09:50 PM   #16
MacLeod
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Re: Threshold

^Paris seemed to able to navigate back to the Voyager just fine.
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Old January 28 2014, 10:12 PM   #17
Guy Gardener
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Re: Threshold

He slows down, and enters real space by turning the engine off.

Imagine if every time you saw a stop sign in the distance when you are driving that you have to turn the engine off and pray that you don't roll to a stop eventually past the stop sign and in the middle of traffic.

Also, because they couldn't technologically see real space while in transwarp space, the pilot had no idea if he would reappear in real space inside a star... Or if there is even any correlation between what a star does to the same spacial coordinates in a near enough parallel dimension?

Although they didn't have the technology to navigate, once Paris started mutating he was able to mentally identify where he was in the universe and where he wanted to be in te universe and then be there instantaneously which tracks with how the Traveller explained the interconnectivity of time, space and mind.

If Salamander Paris could pilot the shuttle at transwarp perfectly by seeing the entire universe, and picking mentally where to exit, that means that he chose that planet he dumped the kids on over Earth. Superior lifeforms do not deserve inferior homeworlds.
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Old January 29 2014, 07:58 AM   #18
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Re: Threshold

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Also, because they couldn't technologically see real space while in transwarp space, the pilot had no idea if he would reappear in real space inside a star...
Um … yeah, he does. There's way more space than there is star. I mean, pick a point at random just within the part of the solar system that's closer to the sun than the Earth is. You have a 99.999 999 96 percent chance of picking a spot that is not inside the sun. And when you consider that most of the solar system is outside the Earth's orbit, and most of space nearby the sun is outside the solar system, you get some sense of just how hard it is to hit a star even if you're trying.
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Old January 29 2014, 08:12 AM   #19
Guy Gardener
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Re: Threshold

Space is big?

Duh.

If you want to talk about percentages, then the void between galaxies is infinitely larger than the space held in the universe by Galaxies.

There's is a 99.9999(recurring infinitely) greater chance of being trapped in the void and never getting back to any galaxy ever again, no matter how long the fuel supply lasted on that shuttle.

Alternatively the Shuttle could "appear" on deck 12 of Voyager at full warp and rip it's way out at impelling at warp 2.

Exiting transwarp space at their level of technological sophistication was a lottery with unfathomable prizes.
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Old January 30 2014, 01:53 AM   #20
MacLeod
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Re: Threshold

They might have used the term transwarp but they were talking about travelling at Warp 10, i.e existing at every point in the universe at the same time. So yes Paris was able to naviagte back to the Voyager just fine. Transwarp as used by the Borg was different to the transwarp they were using in "Threshold".

Transwarp basically came to mean anything faster than conventional warp drive.
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Old January 30 2014, 03:02 AM   #21
Guy Gardener
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Re: Threshold

A mutated human consciousness can navigate by instinct.

You put the EMH as pilot in that ship and he's fucked and lost.

Federation tech has no instrumentality that will work in transspace, and their first job on this project is to stop the mutation that allows for instinctual navigation.

The transwarp conduits may be Faraday cages that stop each individual Borg's subconscious (if any might surface) from cause those specific Borg exiting transspace arbitrarily at whim to anywhere in the universe. What happens when you have multiple consiousness trying to direct the ship/shuttle? Does that mean that the pilot has to have the strongest conciousness? How can you maintain regulation, quality control and consistency?

TORRES: I guess I'll go find them myself. Fill him in.
KIM: Neelix, it would take too long to
NEELIX: What are you saying? I'm not smart enough? I'll have you know I did two years as an engineer's assistant aboard a Trabalian freighter. I'm well-versed in warp theory.
PARIS: Okay, okay. We'll tell you. We're trying to break the maximum warp barrier.
KIM: Nothing in the universe can go warp ten. It's a theoretical impossibility. In principle, if you were ever to reach warp ten, you'd be travelling at infinite velocity.
NEELIX: Infinite velocity. Got it. So that means very fast.
PARIS: It means that you would occupy every point in the universe simultaneously. In theory, you could go any place in the wink of an eye. Time and distance would have no meaning.
(See Douglas Adams for further details.)
KIM: If Voyager achieved warp ten, we could be home in as long as it takes to push a button.
NEELIX: Wow! And you're working on this?
How you exceed infinite speed is simple, instead of going so fast you're travelling at infinite space and achieve completely different physical properties, you punch a whole in the universe through to where those properties are normal and you just "are" travelling at infinite speed. Transwarp space.

That's how the Borg do it.

In Threshold, they actually accellerated till they got to warp ten which was only possible becuase they discovered a new type of Dylithium which rewrote the rule books.

Meanwhile the Voth do not use conduits, and they don't seem to need to have a massive run up to get to warp ten.
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Old January 30 2014, 03:46 AM   #22
Hober Mallow
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Re: Threshold

Tyberius wrote: View Post
I was watching Threshold the other night.
There was your mistake.
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Old January 30 2014, 11:59 AM   #23
MacLeod
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Re: Threshold

True, but when did the mutation kick in was it at warp 10 or slightly slower, if it was at warp 10 just accelerate to Warp 9.9^infinity and you could still be home in time for tea.
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Old January 30 2014, 09:23 PM   #24
Tyberius
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Re: Threshold

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Tyberius wrote: View Post
I was watching Threshold the other night.
There was your mistake.
See, now I don't think it was. Granted, it was the next one in the Netflix queue, but besides the newt puppetry it wasn't all that bad.

Sure, the evolution was weird but it could have been explained a bit better with some more technobabble.

Paris got some meaty scenes. However, the redemption bit would have played better had Threshold been after the next few episodes where he is late to bridge shifts all the time.
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Old January 30 2014, 09:35 PM   #25
Hober Mallow
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Re: Threshold

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Sure, the evolution was weird but it could have been explained a bit better with some more technobabble.
Evolution can't and doesn't work that way, no matter they try to explain it.
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Old January 30 2014, 09:42 PM   #26
Tyberius
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Re: Threshold

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Tyberius wrote: View Post
Sure, the evolution was weird but it could have been explained a bit better with some more technobabble.
Evolution can't and doesn't work that way, no matter they try to explain it.
Agreed, so our job must be to make it work. Because transporter technology, ftl travel, etc. does not work that way and we accept the conceit.
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Old January 30 2014, 10:36 PM   #27
MacLeod
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Re: Threshold

Given that we don't actually have FTL travel or transporter tech we can't say how it will or won't work. We do however have an understanding of evolution.
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Old January 31 2014, 10:27 AM   #28
Tyberius
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Re: Threshold

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Given that we don't actually have FTL travel or transporter tech we can't say how it will or won't work. We do however have an understanding of evolution.
Most recently, scientists have discovered that radiation can cause cells to revert to stem cells. Stem cells can take whatever form is needed by the body. Who is to say that going at infinite velocity and exposing a human to all of the radiation in the universe might not have some adverse effects?
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Old January 31 2014, 02:12 PM   #29
Stoo
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Re: Threshold

Still kind of hilarious that the adverse effect comes in the form of transformation into a giant newt.

(I thought that Stem Cell breakthrough used acid?)
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Old January 31 2014, 11:34 PM   #30
dub
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Re: Threshold

So this is the Winter 2014 Threshold thread? Can't wait to read the Spring 2014 Threshold thread.
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