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Old July 21 2014, 12:56 PM   #316
Forbin
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

AirCommodore wrote: View Post
It's possible that some still exist in service in 2391, or whatever the year is "now" in Trek Prime.
You got it right - it was 2364 in 1987, 27 years ago.
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Old July 26 2014, 04:28 AM   #317
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
It's not an opinion, just seeing it for what it truly is. You can still have ships of Earth, Vulcan, and Andorian registry, but they're all going to be regarded as Federation ships no matter what. From someone outside of the Federation, the difference between a Federation ship and a ship from a Federation member world is zero.
I'm not so sure. In TNG's Unification they keep calling it a Vulcan ship.. Not a Federation ship from Vulcan.. A VULCAN ship. In my mind NOT Federation.
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Old July 26 2014, 04:47 AM   #318
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

Saturn0660 wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
It's not an opinion, just seeing it for what it truly is. You can still have ships of Earth, Vulcan, and Andorian registry, but they're all going to be regarded as Federation ships no matter what. From someone outside of the Federation, the difference between a Federation ship and a ship from a Federation member world is zero.
I'm not so sure. In TNG's Unification they keep calling it a Vulcan ship.. Not a Federation ship from Vulcan.. A VULCAN ship. In my mind NOT Federation.
It had a Federation registry.
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Old July 26 2014, 05:06 AM   #319
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
It had a Federation registry.
How so? They were referred to, but never seen. No Federation registry.

We heard of Tellarite ships in Journey to Babel too.



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Old July 26 2014, 06:06 AM   #320
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
It had a Federation registry.
How so? They were referred to, but never seen. No Federation registry.

We heard of Tellarite ships in Journey to Babel too.



There was an Okudagram in the episode showing that information.
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Old July 26 2014, 06:15 AM   #321
Ithekro
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

T'Pau
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Vulcan National Merchant Fleet
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Old July 26 2014, 06:20 AM   #322
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

Ithekro wrote: View Post
T'Pau
NSP-17938
Vulcan National Merchant Fleet
Bingo. Thanks, Ithekro. Link.
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Old July 26 2014, 06:36 AM   #323
Ithekro
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

So it is registered to Vulcan. Not the Federation. That would be like, oh, registering your car in California I suppose. Is it registered to the United States? No. Is it an American car? Not particularly (though that definition usually refers to nation of manufacture rather than registration). Is it a California car, yes, because that is were it is registered. That is where the money goes and the regulations for permits and the like.

Same might be said for a Vulcan ship verse a Federation ship. Starfleet are all Federation ships because they are the multi-national exploration and defense organization. But the Vulcan National Merchant Fleet? A Vulcan ship. Is it part of the Federation? Yes. Is it a proper Federation starship? Only by place of construction (Apollo-class Federation starship). Is it registered as a Federation ship? I don't think so.
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Old July 26 2014, 08:43 AM   #324
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

Yeah, I am just not getting why this is such a hard concept to grasp. There could be all manner of ship registries, including all of the member worlds.
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Old July 26 2014, 12:21 PM   #325
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

Saturn0660 wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
It's not an opinion, just seeing it for what it truly is. You can still have ships of Earth, Vulcan, and Andorian registry, but they're all going to be regarded as Federation ships no matter what. From someone outside of the Federation, the difference between a Federation ship and a ship from a Federation member world is zero.
I'm not so sure. In TNG's Unification they keep calling it a Vulcan ship.. Not a Federation ship from Vulcan.. A VULCAN ship. In my mind NOT Federation.
If Vulcan is a member of the Federation, then it's a Federation ship. If Vulcan isn't a member of the Federation, then it's not.

Specifying a ship as being Vulcan is merely a way of distinguishing it from a Starfleet vessel or determining its point of origin. Doesn't mean that it isn't a Federation ship.
Dukhat wrote: View Post
Saturn0660 wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
It's not an opinion, just seeing it for what it truly is. You can still have ships of Earth, Vulcan, and Andorian registry, but they're all going to be regarded as Federation ships no matter what. From someone outside of the Federation, the difference between a Federation ship and a ship from a Federation member world is zero.
I'm not so sure. In TNG's Unification they keep calling it a Vulcan ship.. Not a Federation ship from Vulcan.. A VULCAN ship. In my mind NOT Federation.
It had a Federation registry.
Exactly. A Federation ship doesn't have to be a Starfleet one. It really isn't that hard a concept. Anything else is just splitting hairs.
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Last edited by C.E. Evans; July 26 2014 at 12:49 PM.
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Old July 26 2014, 04:14 PM   #326
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Saturn0660 wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
It's not an opinion, just seeing it for what it truly is. You can still have ships of Earth, Vulcan, and Andorian registry, but they're all going to be regarded as Federation ships no matter what. From someone outside of the Federation, the difference between a Federation ship and a ship from a Federation member world is zero.
I'm not so sure. In TNG's Unification they keep calling it a Vulcan ship.. Not a Federation ship from Vulcan.. A VULCAN ship. In my mind NOT Federation.
If Vulcan is a member of the Federation, then it's a Federation ship. If Vulcan isn't a member of the Federation, then it's not.

Specifying a ship as being Vulcan is merely a way of distinguishing it from a Starfleet vessel or determining its point of origin. Doesn't mean that it isn't a Federation ship.
Dukhat wrote: View Post
Saturn0660 wrote: View Post
I'm not so sure. In TNG's Unification they keep calling it a Vulcan ship.. Not a Federation ship from Vulcan.. A VULCAN ship. In my mind NOT Federation.
It had a Federation registry.
Exactly. A Federation ship doesn't have to be a Starfleet one. It really isn't that hard a concept. Anything else is just splitting hairs.

I think you're the one splitting hairs. It's not that hard to get.

I'll use where I live.
1.Ohio plate for my car. Ohio registered "civilian "ship"'. me
2.Ohio Government plate. Ohio registered "military "ship"". cops
3.U.S Government plates. U.S.A. registered "military "ship"". mil

1. local planet ship i.e. Vulcan civilian ship
2. local militia planet ship i.e. Vulcan militia ship
3. Federation ship. 90% of what we see in all of ST.

So by your logic my car is a US registered car. Thats not what it is at all. It's a car in Ohio that has to follow Ohio rules. i.e. two plates.(front/back)
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Old July 26 2014, 04:57 PM   #327
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

Saturn0660 wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Saturn0660 wrote: View Post

I'm not so sure. In TNG's Unification they keep calling it a Vulcan ship.. Not a Federation ship from Vulcan.. A VULCAN ship. In my mind NOT Federation.
If Vulcan is a member of the Federation, then it's a Federation ship. If Vulcan isn't a member of the Federation, then it's not.

Specifying a ship as being Vulcan is merely a way of distinguishing it from a Starfleet vessel or determining its point of origin. Doesn't mean that it isn't a Federation ship.
Dukhat wrote: View Post
It had a Federation registry.
Exactly. A Federation ship doesn't have to be a Starfleet one. It really isn't that hard a concept. Anything else is just splitting hairs.

I think you're the one splitting hairs.
You're mistaken. In fact, it's the exact opposite of splitting hairs as it's being comprehensive. It's just a simple case of calling ships from Federation members Federation ships. You can have Earth ships, Vulcan ships, Andorian ships, etc., but they all can be regarded as Federation ships.
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Old July 26 2014, 07:07 PM   #328
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

One cannot be certain that is how it works though. Especially in how things are phrased. A Vulcan ship named T'Pau that operates as a merchantmen would not generally be listed as a Federation starship. It would be listed as a Vulcan starship. An Earth ship, named Enterprise, would not be listed as a Federation starship. It would be the Earth starship Enterprise. It would not have a "USS" on it as that would be for a ship of the United Federation of Planets.

Member planets of the Federation are even more autonomous than states in the United States of American, and have their own national identity. It would stand to reason that they would have their own ships still and those would not generally be called "Federation" ships, but more properly ships of their nation.
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Old July 26 2014, 08:10 PM   #329
C.E. Evans
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

Ithekro wrote: View Post
One cannot be certain that is how it works though.
It's just calling a spade a spade.

One can try to come up with all sorts of (fairly unnecessary, IMO) rationales why ships from Federation member worlds aren't really Federation ships, but it really comes across as not seeing the forest for the trees.
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Old July 26 2014, 09:22 PM   #330
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
If Vulcan is a member of the Federation, then it's a Federation ship. If Vulcan isn't a member of the Federation, then it's not.

Specifying a ship as being Vulcan is merely a way of distinguishing it from a Starfleet vessel or determining its point of origin. Doesn't mean that it isn't a Federation ship.
Modern day, Malaysia is a Member of the British Commonwealth, that doesn't mean that every ship and naval vessel flagged out of Malaysia is a British Commonwealth ship.

Similarly, Vulcan is a UFP Member, that doesn't mean that every (or any) Vulcan civilian ship, merchantman and defense ship is a "Federation ship."

The Federation likely does have some starships for use in Federation business. But the vast majority of the ships moving through space within the Federation are not "Federation ships." They are registered to one of the Member worlds, or to a colony, or to a business, or to a individual.

Or they're from a non-Member civilization.

Ithekro wrote: View Post
Member planets of the Federation are even more autonomous than states in the United States of American, and have their own national identity.
Less the states in the United States, and more something like the sovereign nations that are a part of the United Nations, or the Organization of American States.

Yes, being a Federation Member is a part of their total makeup, but that Membership isn't the only thing that they are. And as a sovereign entity being a Federation Member might not even be on their top ten list of importance.


Last edited by Merry Christmas; July 26 2014 at 09:35 PM.
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