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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old July 15 2014, 07:46 AM   #301
C.E. Evans
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
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CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post

That's if you parse "Federation ship" to mean that. The whole point here is that that need not be the way it was parsed in "Relics". What you are saying is only one assumption of what it might mean. Clearly, it's the one you favor, but that doesn't mean it's the only reasonable way to read it.
It actually is the only reasonable way to read it, otherwise you're talking about non-Federation ships or unknown/outlaw ships that aren't registered anywhere.
Obviously, that's your opinion, and just as obviously, not everybody here agrees.
It's not actually an opinion, just an agreement with onscreen material.
Ithekro wrote:
Thus, an opening. Not for anything grand, or even anything important. Just an opening for something named Enterprise between 2161 and 2244. There isn't much in the away of opening after that, though again there could be civilian ships or craft that use the name Enterprise that would not be considered Federation ships, They would also be more or less unimportant. Like a sail boat in a marina in Richmond named Enterprise or a planetary survey ship named Enterprise registered on Alpha Centauri. No one would pay them any mind in most history text.
The simplest solution--and one that has always been on the table here--was that of a non-Federation ship called Enterprise. A vessel of independent registry that could operate anywhere her engines could take her.
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Old July 15 2014, 07:58 AM   #302
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

But that is just it. In the early days of the Federation, say the first hundred years, there would be ships registered to member world and colonies that would likely not be listed as Federation ships because their national/planetary identity would be more common than ships registered as Federation ships. The United Earth Space Probe Agency is one of those hold overs into the 2260s, a hundred years after the founding of the Federation. The integration of various species onto Federation ships in Starfleet is also a sign that they are unifying after a hundred years.

This also means that prior to this, it may have still been more common to have ships identified by their planet of origin or registration rather than as a Federation ship. Out of habit and practice if nothing else. Starfleet being probably the most Federation of the groups out there, but it is not alone. The Vulcans and Andorian would still need time to integrate. Not only with the Earth/Federation Starfleet, but also with their former enemies. In addition, the companies of these world might register independent of the Federation, but still be registered to their homeworlds.
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Old July 15 2014, 08:09 AM   #303
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

I think when the Federation was formed, every registered ship--regardless if it came from Earth, Vulcan, Andoria, etc.,--automatically became Federation ships. Had NX-01 not been decommissioned just prior to its formation, she too would have been a Federation ship.
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Old July 15 2014, 08:32 AM   #304
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
It actually is the only reasonable way to read it, otherwise you're talking about non-Federation ships or unknown/outlaw ships that aren't registered anywhere.
Obviously, that's your opinion, and just as obviously, not everybody here agrees.
It's not actually an opinion, just an agreement with onscreen material.
I agree what you say agrees with on screen material. It's clear that it does. It's just not the only thing that agrees with on screen material, and what's your opinion is that it's the only reasonable thing that agrees with on screen material.
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Old July 15 2014, 10:41 AM   #305
C.E. Evans
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post

Obviously, that's your opinion, and just as obviously, not everybody here agrees.
It's not actually an opinion, just an agreement with onscreen material.
I agree what you say agrees with on screen material. It's clear that it does. It's just not the only thing that agrees with on screen material, and what's your opinion is that it's the only reasonable thing that agrees with on screen material.
It's not an opinion, just seeing it for what it truly is. You can still have ships of Earth, Vulcan, and Andorian registry, but they're all going to be regarded as Federation ships no matter what. From someone outside of the Federation, the difference between a Federation ship and a ship from a Federation member world is zero.
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Old July 15 2014, 10:57 AM   #306
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

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Old July 15 2014, 12:04 PM   #307
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

FWIW, I can see validity in both these theories. The truth is, we don't really now how everyone sees the Federation or vessels within it, since our exposure to the fictional universe has been so small in relation to the size of it.

However, this:
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
It's not an opinion, just seeing it for what it truly is.
...is priceless! Thanks for brightening my day.
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Old July 15 2014, 12:41 PM   #308
C.E. Evans
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

If it amuses you, fine. It is what it is.
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Old July 15 2014, 02:13 PM   #309
Robert Comsol
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

Nebusj wrote: View Post
Can't fault the computer for not knowing which ship Scott meant to start with there, since there's (according to the transcript) eleven ships Scott might plausibly have meant. Between ``my old ship'' and ``the Enterprise'' the computer should've been able to pin it down to one of just two (possibly three, if Scott had a hand in constructing the Enterprise-B enough to have a credible emotional claim to it).

Best I can work out is maybe the computer started from ``any of the ships Scott had served on'', narrowed to ``NCC 1701 ships'' and then not-quite-appropriately expanded that from two/three to the five NCC 1701 Enterprises. I can almost make out the logic in that chain of search results.
That works fine for me, too. I found your suggestion that Scotty might have had a hand in constructing the "B" rather inspiring (maybe he's the one responsible for the bumpers given his apparent dislike for the look of the Excelsior Class...however, I then wouldn't think Scotty had good taste):

That the computer considers the possibility that Scotty's "my" ship could refer to the "C" and the "D" remains somewhat odd. Maybe he participated in the original class name finding process or some warp field studies yielding the final designs of the "C" or the "D" and could consider either one designs an offspring of "his" preliminary work? Just 0.02 $, I know.

Bob
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Old July 15 2014, 02:49 PM   #310
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

It might be that the computer didn't know what Scotty meant by "my old ship" but responded to "the Enterprise" and offered an initial selection of ships to choose from.
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Old July 15 2014, 04:17 PM   #311
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

^^ I think that works fine, too. An initial selection of the most popular Enterprises, which probably works in 90% of the cases.

After all, I think even in the 24th Century it still depends how the computer has been programmed.

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Old July 15 2014, 07:00 PM   #312
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

Here is a theory:

It has been shown that, while the ship's library is huge, it doesn't contain everything. Like it was said before, the 1701s are what 90+% of people are looking for, so that is what is in the computer. As for the NX and the older sailing ship, those would could have been parts of programs that where downloaded at a later date. The computer could have been program to just list the 1701s asked about the Enterprise and if there was a different Enterprise wanted, to assume that the user would have made a more narrow request. And in that case, it would uplink, find, and download the needed program.

Keep in mind, this ship has more than just a Starfleet crew. It has the crews families aboard as well. And I can see the Holodecks being used as an educational resource as well. So to have a child ask to see the Enterprise and list 11+ ships when all they wanted was the ship his/her daddy/mommy/grandpa served on, the child would get overwhelmed.

Thoughts?

Last edited by Sans; July 15 2014 at 07:06 PM. Reason: added last bit.
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Old July 15 2014, 07:33 PM   #313
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

In a real sense, that's how it usually works. If you're looking for something specific, it is pretty much a case of narrowing down the search results until you find it. Sometimes the computer will ask you to be more specific if your initial request is too vague.
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Old July 16 2014, 07:13 AM   #314
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

If they decide to say there was a Daedalus Class Enterprise, for instance,it wont matter. People, as we have seen, will just come up with some sort of explanation as to why the computer didn't mention that ship. It "defaulted" to the 1701's, it ruled it out because he said "my ship", and it is too old for him to have served on it, etc.
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Old July 16 2014, 10:54 AM   #315
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Re: Was NCC-1701 active for 40 years?

Like Google, the top result is the most popular one.
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