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View Poll Results: Rate Protectors.
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Old February 12 2014, 09:28 PM   #136
Sci
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Re: VOY: Protectors by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I bought this one the other day, intending to read it much later, as I essentially read Full Circle when it was published five years ago but haven't gotten around to reading any of Kirsten's subsequent VOY novels. At some point, I was just going to go on a VOY binge, and read Full Circle, Unworthy, Children of the Storm, The Eternal Tide, and Protectors all in one go -- maybe immediately before Acts of Contrition.

But I read bits of it and I got sucked in anyway, even without reading the rest of the series! Darn you, New York Times Bestselling Author Kirsten Mother Fucking Beyer! Darn you to Heck!

Seriously, great job! Lots of fun reading this one, and it remains a breath of fresh air to see these characters I know so well, finally written as three-dimensional people instead of the cardboard cutouts they so often were on TV!
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Old February 12 2014, 11:45 PM   #137
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Re: VOY: Protectors by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Where the Hell is Heck?
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Old February 14 2014, 05:21 PM   #138
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Re: VOY: Protectors by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
Goentoer wrote: View Post
and don't forget to check on Blink of An Eye planet, they might have 10millenium Starfleet technology equivalent by now
"No need to leave, Captain. Once we've helped you out of orbit, hold position at the edge of the system and wait a few hours. By then, our trans-slipstream super vessels will be able to pick you up and transport you instantly back home. Of course, your home will by then be a province of the Mighty and Unrivalled Galactic Tahal-Meeroj Empire".

"Yes. That's why I just ordered our antimatter reserves flushed out into your atmosphere".

*awkward pause*

"...Sorry".


(a joke, of course)
I believe that it was the most logical choice for Voyager, on their way home, and on their return to Delta Quadrant

Let's hear this scenario...
a day after the voyager left, all of the Natives move to nearby class M Planet (or they can instantly terraform any planet with their hyper advance terraforming technologies). after they all move, they started their 30minutes shift on planet for research and development (and maybe massive reproduction cycle).... which equal to 1670 days....

Let's imagine what will happened in 3-4 years... a hyper advance civilization encompassing thousands of light years of spaces which adore the spirit of Sky Ship Voyager
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Old February 14 2014, 07:33 PM   #139
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Re: VOY: Protectors by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

2/3 of the way through. And I see that

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Old February 17 2014, 03:59 PM   #140
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Re: VOY: Protectors by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I just finished this yesterday,and It'll take me a while to do more re-reading so that I can give a better opinion,but from my first read through,I quite enjoyed it!

I loved seeing more of Dr Sharak and Glenn,as well as how O'Donnell and Chakotay (plus Farkas and Janeway) interacted.The scene where Picard cursed at Q was great too!I'm really interested to see how the next novel will continue things.Also,I can't really blame Julia for wanting to take legal action against Tom and B'Elanna,since they did lie to her and nothing comes without its consequences.

The only minor quibble that I have is that early in the novel,Lasren is called a Bajoran,and not a Betazoid,like in the rest of the book.
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Old February 21 2014, 10:45 AM   #141
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Re: VOY: Protectors by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Mirmotte wrote: View Post
Also,I can't really blame Julia for wanting to take legal action against Tom and B'Elanna,since they did lie to her and nothing comes without its consequences.
I'm only about 2/3 through the book, so I don't know what will happen in the last 1/3. But Julia has issues with Tom and B'Elanna - so isn't her attempt at taking away Miral a bit misdirected? Lying to their mother (in law) doesn't necessarily make bad parents. Question is if Julia doesn't disqualify herself as a grandparent by that overreaction...
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Old February 21 2014, 11:29 PM   #142
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Re: VOY: Protectors by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Claudia wrote: View Post
I'm only about 2/3 through the book, so I don't know what will happen in the last 1/3. But Julia has issues with Tom and B'Elanna - so isn't her attempt at taking away Miral a bit misdirected? Lying to their mother (in law) doesn't necessarily make bad parents. Question is if Julia doesn't disqualify herself as a grandparent by that overreaction...
Keep in mind she just lost her husband. For us, the events of Destiny a years old, but in the current VOY continuity only a few months have passed. For the characters it's still raw. Julia might suffer some sort of breakdown after everything that's happened in '81.
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Old February 22 2014, 09:01 PM   #143
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Re: VOY: Protectors by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I warn you: this is going to be long.

Let me begin by pointing out that I’m one of those people who’s generally content to simply read comments by others rather than giving my own. But after waiting for Protectors to be released and then finally having a chance to read it, I just really wanted to share some of my thoughts. Not that it’s anything profound or new or special… just wanted to share in the positive feedback. That’s how good Kirsten Beyer’s books are.

Allow me to provide some background. I am one of the apparent few who loves Voyager as a series. Was it a perfect series? No, of course not. And yes, there are things I wish had been handled differently. But all things considered, I see it as a very enjoyable show to watch and not nearly as much of a disaster as many claim it to have been. Not going to defend it, that’s just my opinion and certainly others are entitled to their opinion as well so we’ll leave it at that.

Anyhow, like many others, when the series ended, I was curious to know what happened after they returned to the Alpha Quadrant, so I was anxious to read Christie Golden’s relaunch novels. Unlike many, I enjoyed those books. I enjoyed Christie’s other books (I’m particularly fond of the Dark Matters trilogy) and I thought she did good things with the relaunch. I enjoyed seeing where the characters went after getting home and how things changed for them and I think some really good things came from what she started. Her occasional weakness was that she didn’t really explore the story and characters to their full potential. But the potential is there, so I am willing to take what she gave and enjoy it for what it is and what it contributes.

After Christie’s books finished up and there was a break for several years before Kirsten took over, I moved on and didn’t keep track of the Voyager books. Years later, I happened to come across a copy of Unworthy at the bookstore and I read the back of the book and was completely unprepared for what I found there. Keep in mind, I only read Voyager books and I hadn’t yet read Full Circle. The first thing I read on the back of the book is that the Borg are gone. Wait, what? The Borg are a huge part of Star Trek… how do you suddenly get rid of the Borg? Next, I find out Voyager is going back to the Delta Quadrant. They just got home and now you’re telling me that they’re going back to the Delta Quadrant? And it’s a whole fleet? How is one story supposed to keep up with a whole fleet of ships? And who in the world is this Captain Eden and how did she become captain of Voyager? And where’s Janeway while all this is happening? Obviously, I could have read other books to address these matters, but I really just wasn’t interested. If this was where Voyager was headed – back to the Delta Quadrant and full of new characters I wasn’t invested in – then it didn’t matter to me anymore. It wasn’t that I wasn’t willing to give these new books a chance, I just didn’t care enough to read books that appeared to be “loosely” connected to the series that I was familiar with. Everything about the premise of the new relaunch just didn’t feel like it was the Voyager I knew and had come to care for. There were new characters and going back to the Delta Quadrant felt like a step backwards. It felt like more of a spin off of Voyager than a continuation of Voyager.

Consequently, I didn’t read the new books for years. And I don’t even remember why I ultimately decided to give it a chance. But I did. And I’m so glad because my initial impression of what it would do for the series was completely wrong! Kirsten’s books have taken Voyager to a whole new level. As I’ve said, it was always a good show in my opinion, but her books have made it that much better. She highlighted the positive things about the show and took the weaknesses and improved on them. Each book brings new progression and I eagerly await finding out what will happen next.

Since then, I have read all of Kirsten’s books multiple times and I have been awaiting the release of Protectors ever since it was announced. I wasn’t really worried that it would be disappointing at all – I think Kirsten’s proven herself by now. For me, it was more a matter of how good would it be? And it was really good. Leading up to it, I had a small list of things in my mind that I hoped would be addressed in the next book, and it delivered in every aspect that really mattered to me and then some.

One of Kirsten’s many strengths is that she fully explores any given story line. She doesn’t back away from anything, rather she takes it and runs with it full speed ahead, even when it would be easier to keep it superficial. It’s not some passing story but she fully explores the implications of everything that happens. I love that. And this book was no different. We got to see consequences of Janeway’s unexpected return to active duty. We got to see consequences of Tom and B’Elanna’s choice to fake B’Elanna and Miral’s deaths (a story that I think many readers, including myself, believed was completely finished and wrapped up). We got to see the return of many past Delta Quadrant species and story lines. I love the continuity that exists in her stories.

It’s the little things that made this book such a great success for me. I loved the memorial service. It was a significant event for the Full Circle Fleet, yet something that easily could have been nothing more than a passing mention that it had happened, given where the last book left off. I loved that Kirsten took the time to actually focus on that event and the thoughts that were shared and the impact it had on those present. I loved seeing Janeway confront her own memorial. How surreal would that be? I loved seeing Commander Glenn exercise her skills as a doctor along with her command abilities. I loved seeing Voyager and Demeter as they tried to make sense of the wave forms and how they helped them to help themselves rather than doing it for them. I loved the return of several characters and species from the series. I loved Janeway meeting up with Picard and seeing those two great captains interact. I loved Tom encountering Cambridge in the holodec at Sandrine’s. I loved seeing Janeway take some time to talk with Naomi and give her some much needed advice. I loved the solution to the fleet’s recent losses by bringing in the Vesta. I found all of it to be absolutely brilliant.

Captain Farkas has become one of my very favorite characters in the books (quite an accomplishment, considering I was the one who didn’t want any new characters not from the series to be introduced – I just didn’t believe I could come to care about them and so they only served to take away time from the “real” characters). I think many “new” characters that are introduced are made out as “misfits” in one way or another. Sharak is a very different species that still struggles to communicate with and identify with humans. Cambridge is a bit abrasive and not exactly the most likeable of people. O’Donnell has a very unique perspective and approach to things that comes across as irresponsible. It is refreshing to see another of Starfleet’s finest who is capable, has years of experience, is respected, and has the heart of an explorer. But she’s also not some wooden, cookie-cutter sort of character, either – there’s depth and a richness to her character. One of my biggest concerns coming off of Eternal Tide was that she and the rest of the crew that had returned to the Alpha Quadrant would be brushed aside and forgotten. I should have known Kirsten Beyer better than that, but Eternal Tide just left the door wide open to close the chapter for many of those new characters and I think many authors would have gone that route. I was so delighted that she not only made a return in this book, but that she had a relatively significant role and that she has been set up so that she will continue to be a recurring character in upcoming books. I loved her interactions with Janeway. At first I was a bit unhappy that she had such a negative reaction towards Janeway. It seemed to me that she would have been one who supported Janeway. But then I quickly understood that her reaction made complete sense. I’ve seen some complain that her opposition to Janeway was resolved too quickly and easily. I disagree. It just wouldn’t make sense for her character to hold a grudge against Janeway after giving her a chance. It was good to have the initial opposition and uncertainty but it also makes sense that she has come to terms with that and now supports Janeway in her position as Fleet Commander. I agree that it would be an interesting dynamic for some characters to have reservations towards Janeway and I would like to see that explored, but not from Farkas. They’re too similar in their strengths.

As for complaints, they are few and relatively minor.

I’m not a huge fan of the relationship between Seven and Cambridge, but I’m willing to go along with it. But I really dislike the idea of any sort of “triangle” or competition now that Axum is in the picture. The Doctor’s opposition to the relationship had enough of that for me. It will be interesting to see how that develops in future books.

My other complaint is in regards to Harry Kim becoming temporary first officer. Kirsten has done a fantastic job building up his character and getting him to the point where it is a reasonable next step… But I still just have a hard time envisioning Harry as first officer material. He’s certainly capable but he’s not quite that leader for me yet. I have been very pleased and impressed with Tom and how he has filled the role, but I’m just not sure I can see Harry step up to that level just yet. Right now, tactical officer is enough of a stretch for me. Time will tell, but right now I’m not enthusiastic about that development.

In a nutshell, I consider Protectors to be another success in the Voyager series. To Kirsten, I would say thank you for bringing your many and considerable talents to Voyager and I look forward to seeing what else you have planned for future books. Here’s hoping you continue to write Voyager for many more years to come (and that you enjoy writing it as much as we enjoy reading it!)

And if anyone actually read this entire post, I most definitely applaud you!
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Old February 23 2014, 05:17 AM   #144
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Re: VOY: Protectors by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I just finished it, and I enjoyed it tremendously. I'm glad the next one is coming out in only eight months. My memory is terrible - I could probably read the same 50 books over and over and never realize that I've read them already. I've read every 24th-century Trek novel published in the last 14 years but I can't remember much of any of them...

Consequently, it was very handy to use Memory Beta as I had forgotten so much of what happened in Kirsten's previous novels. She must reread them all before starting each new one. I had a book published a few years ago and I'll be damned if I remember everything that went into that.

I thought Janeway's "new age" counselling session was beautifully written, as were her times at home. My only concern about the counselling session is that the revelations happened too quickly... I suspect that Austen has some kind of empathic abilities to help bring such an immediate result but maybe that should have been made more obvious.

But one thing: there were a TONNE of typos in the novel, and I don't blame Kirsten for that. I blame her copy editors - there were enough typos here that I think they actually sent the wrong draft to the production department. It wasn't just extra words or missing words, but some completely messed up words that even a basic spell check should have picked up.

I notice almost every typo when I read a novel (I wish I could notice them in my own writing) and if a novel has a lot of them it detracts from an otherwise seamless fictional world experience.

Kirsten should protest most vociferously!

-Jason
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Old February 23 2014, 08:08 AM   #145
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Re: VOY: Protectors by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

stormy wrote: View Post
I am one of the apparent few who loves Voyager as a series.
You're on a Star Trek Forum, so there's lots of people here who love and appreciate Voyager and its characters. In fact I'm one of them!
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Old February 23 2014, 03:00 PM   #146
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Re: VOY: Protectors by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

stormy wrote: View Post
And if anyone actually read this entire post, I most definitely applaud you!
Don't worry, I've been softening them up for you.

Great post, by the way. Thanks for sharing, and welcome to full participation on the forum.
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Old February 24 2014, 08:39 AM   #147
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Re: VOY: Protectors by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Hey guys,

For the last few weeks I have been meaning to get back here and respond to some of the comments on Protectors. The outline for the final book in this trilogy, which I just finished, ended up kicking my ass, so I've been unable to do that.

But now that the outline is more or less done...


David Brennon wrote: View Post
As for the comments about your daughter... it melted my heart. I had to read that to my wife and she just looked at me with misty eyes and say "that is SO true!"

We have a 14 month old boy sleeping in the next room, and it just gets me right in the heart when people talk about their kids like that. I love it.
Your 14 month old was sleeping? Well done.

CommodoreNero wrote: View Post
(snip)... My only concern is that it is out of sync chronologically with the rest of the "current" book timelines.
Why? A fair number of readers have raised this point here and elsewhere, and the concern eludes me. The only rationale I can figure is that you worry Voyager is going to get so far behind everyone else that we will be forced by another Destiny-like event to jump forward and that current threads will be dropped.

The next two books in this trilogy will bring Voyager roughly to the end of their first of three proposed years in the Delta Quadrant. Already, the rest of Trek-lit is beyond that three year mark. So in some ways, we are already too far behind for it to matter anymore.

I have chosen to tell this group of stories essentially never missing a beat. We always pick up more or less right where we left off. Some cover more time than others. The only thing that ever matters to me is how much time does the story I want to tell take? By separating the fleet from the Alpha Quadrant, I gave myself the ability to do that. Now it's like I have a crystal ball. I already know everything major that is going to happen while Voyager is still out there and can decide what, if any, may be relevant to my stories.

Yes, there are downsides. Not participating in some of the bigger crossover stuff is a bummer sometimes. But for now, at least, this kind of storytelling feels right for Voyager. It might not be for another series, but for this one, it works.

All I can suggest is that you try not to worry. Should something come up that requires adjustments due to the rest of Trek-lit, I can promise you that if I am the author handling it, every effort will be made to make sure it feels like an organic development.


star trek wrote: View Post
One thing I didn't understand was why Vorik and Tuvok were withdrawn, almost bitter? Its been a while since I read the last books but is it because they thought she was dead and now she's back? and they don't know how to deal with it since they accepted her death?.
In Tuvok's case, it is a direct result of the events of Destiny and Over a Torrent Sea. In both of those books, we saw him seriously knocked off his pins and taking a long time to come to terms with the loss of his son and daughter-in-law. I discussed with Mike Martin the realities of where Titan was at the time this story was set and although we agreed it would be possible to carve out some time to connect with Janeway, the more I looked at it, the more it felt appropriate to me for his character that he would need more time to process stuff before he was ready to speak with her. Even though I don't get to write much Tuvok anymore, I still think of him as very much a part of Voyager and can assure you that eventually, he and Janeway will re-connect.

For Vorik, a similar dynamic was at play. His experiences during the Omega crisis, while only shown briefly in TET, were profound and horrible. It is possible I did not stress enough in the earlier books his devotion to Captain Itak and how that loss would have affected him. With my Vulcans in particular I am always conscious of the fact that there stoic presentation is not the result of a lack of feeling, but of a practiced mental discipline masking incredibly intense feelings. Also...Vorik always seemed kind of "young" to me. While he has aged along with everyone else, I don't think it's out of character to suggest that he, and probably several other officers who have been part of Voyager from the beginning would have challenges accepting Janeway's return. You'll get more of his thoughts on that in Acts of Contrition, and hopefully it will make more sense to you then.

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
Yes I was aware of that but I meant that you injected a reference to a flight accident in the Academy that he tried to cover up into his back history making the linkages more explicit.
Although some folks have rightly pointed out that the flight accident is mentioned in Caretaker, I actually took my reference from the re-read I did of Pathways, by Jeri Taylor before starting Protectors. She spells out the whole story there.

FWIW, this is also where the inspiration for Julia's reaction to Tom's lie came from. Tom has had some serious lapses in judgment over the years. Through all of them, Julia was the one to stand by him and love him anyway (at least per Jeri Taylor). What occurred to me as I re-visited this material was that this time, he might have gone to far with regard to his mother. She has given him the benefit of the doubt too many times. She believed she knew who he was and who he had become during his time in the Delta Quadrant. And then he lied about something so huge. She was already grieving for her husband and then she is also asked to grieve for her granddaughter? Which is a special kind of awful hell, thinking about this baby who had her whole in front of her? But that was a lie?

I don' t know. Enough people have suggested that this plot felt contrived for it to be impossible to ignore. And it is likely that for most, Julia is a less well-developed character so this feels like it's coming out of the blue. For me, she's a whole person with her own story that we only get to see glimpses of, but this choice absolutely tracks with what I know of her. I'm not saying she is right, only that I understand why she would feel this way and act this way. After Acts, you guys will tell me if I was right or not.

Thrawn wrote: View Post
Kirsten Beyer wrote: View Post
Going forward, its New York Times Bestselling Author, Kirsten Mother Fucking Beyer.
I kind of love the mental image of you introducing yourself this way at parties.


ryan123450 wrote: View Post
Two questions:
1) Have you thought of an explanation for some of the multiple appearance of several races threwout the Delta Quadrant, despite Voyager crossing many tens of thousands of lightyears between encounters with them?
Gosh...no...I should really get on that, right?

Ummmm....do you honestly think I would ever do something like that without knowing exactly how and why this was happening?

The only thing that has surprised me so far is that no one seems to even have a clue where I'm going with this. (Insert evil laugh.)

ryan123450 wrote: View Post
2) The end of the book states that it has been two months since Axum was discovered, which occurred at the beginning of the novel. However the Historian's Note says the book takes place from September to January. As I read I only see about two and half months of time passing. I know I've bothered you about timeline problems before, and hope I don't bring up something else that slipped through the cracks, but can you help me understand the chronology of events here?
As usual, I was intentionally vague, figuring travel time, time spent exploring, etc. I don't want to try and get more specific about it now. Suffice it to say that the first time we see Janeway before the memorial service we are in September and by the time we are about to return to the Confederacy it is early January.

Sci wrote: View Post
But I read bits of it and I got sucked in anyway, even without reading the rest of the series! Darn you, New York Times Bestselling Author Kirsten Mother Fucking Beyer! Darn you to Heck!

Seriously, great job! Lots of fun reading this one, and it remains a breath of fresh air to see these characters I know so well, finally written as three-dimensional people instead of the cardboard cutouts they so often were on TV!
How interesting. I'm glad it hooked you enough to keep you reading, and now I'm even more interested to know how you will react to the predecessors, knowing where we are now.

Anyway, if I'm going to be damned for something, making it hard for you to stop reading is a worthy sin in my mind.

Mirmotte wrote: View Post
The only minor quibble that I have is that early in the novel,Lasren is called a Bajoran,and not a Betazoid,like in the rest of the book.
Damn it. Damn it all. I try so frigging hard, you know? Between this and all the notes I'm seeing on typos, I almost don't know what to think. Obviously, sometimes I just get stuff wrong. But every time one of these things is published and someone else points it out, it makes me want to re-read everything ten more times and there is never enough time for that. The typo complaint I find most interesting now. I re-read the finished book not that long ago and while I saw a couple, not nearly enough for the ferocity with which this complaint is being leveled. Hmmm....


In general, I'm pleased that the book is working for most of the readers here. I have been particularly gratified to read praise of the Janeway/Picard scene as it was equal parts terrifying and insanely fun to write. Other things that gave me joy..."Monster", the scene with Naomi, Sharak's development, have been noted by a few as well, and that's nice for me.

A few people have also mentioned the memorial service...or overly-long memorial service in some cases...and I did want to shed a little light for you all there.

I had always planned to write that scene if I got the chance after TET. To my mind, we had lost too many ships and too many people for it to be glossed over in a few sentences.

What I had not planned was that a few weeks before I began writing that scene, Sandy Hook would happen. I always try as a writer to keep my stuff separate from my characters. You don't need to know or see my challenges unless they track directly with those I am exploring in my characters' lives. But Sandy Hook shook me to my core. I was taking my daughter to school as the first news reports were coming in and it was all I could do to leave her and I could not return to her soon enough. There is darkness in the world and then there are the demons I have to face daily. This one hurt me and changed me and I'm still not okay about it.

So if I took a little more time than I otherwise might have exploring everyone's feelings about their tragedy, that probably had something to do with it. I won't apologize for spending a few extra pages meditating on something so massively wrong and trying to make a little sense of it, if only for myself. I don't personally know any of the people involved. I didn't write anything publicly about it because a long string of curse words wasn't going to add much to the conversation and that was about all I could muster for a long time. Part of me wanted to dedicate the novel to the twenty-six victims and their families, but ultimately I decided to reach for the light of my god-daughter's life rather than back into the darkness.

But that scene is what it is because of Sandy Hook. And I'm okay with that. I guess every once in awhile, I'm going to have to ask for a little indulgence from my readers. This was one of them.

As always,
Kirsten
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Old February 24 2014, 12:22 PM   #148
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Re: VOY: Protectors by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Kirsten Beyer wrote: View Post
The next two books in this trilogy will bring Voyager roughly to the end of their first of three proposed years in the Delta Quadrant. Already, the rest of Trek-lit is beyond that three year mark. So in some ways, we are already too far behind for it to matter anymore.
This would bring Voyager to early 2384, and as they are in early 2382 right now, that would mean the next two books cover about two years. Sounds ambitious. Can't wait
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Old February 24 2014, 01:03 PM   #149
Thrawn
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Re: VOY: Protectors by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

You misread - she said the end of the first of three years, not the end of three years.
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Old February 24 2014, 01:23 PM   #150
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Re: VOY: Protectors by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Thrawn wrote: View Post
You misread - she said the end of the first of three years, not the end of three years.
You've misread. 2384 would be the 3rd year of the mission. Don't forget "Full Circle" (the novel) jumped the series up to May 2381, with "The Eternal Tide occurring between August and September 2381 ("Unworthy" and "Children Of The Storm" took place between May and August 2381). So, technically, the Full Circle mission is still within it's first 7-8 months in November-December 2381
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