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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old February 2 2014, 04:01 AM   #91
Avro Arrow
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

Christopher wrote: View Post
But then "In a Mirror, Darkly" went and contradicted this by giving the Defiant uniforms a distinct insignia, based on the Starfleet Command chevron that was often seen on the wall behind admirals on the viewscreen, and that's part of the "racing stripes" on the side of the Enterprise engineering hull.
That just shows that this particular Defiant was just one of many out there in the multiverse. The Defiant we saw in The Tholian Web with the arrowhead insignia stayed in the interphase until it was recovered by the Da Vinci in the 24th century!
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Old February 2 2014, 04:15 AM   #92
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
That just shows that this particular Defiant was just one of many out there in the multiverse. The Defiant we saw in The Tholian Web with the arrowhead insignia stayed in the interphase until it was recovered by the Da Vinci in the 24th century!
That did occur to me.
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Old February 2 2014, 05:39 AM   #93
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

Pardon me, but


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Old February 7 2014, 07:05 AM   #94
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
But then "In a Mirror, Darkly" went and contradicted this by giving the Defiant uniforms a distinct insignia, based on the Starfleet Command chevron that was often seen on the wall behind admirals on the viewscreen, and that's part of the "racing stripes" on the side of the Enterprise engineering hull.
Probably because folks like Mike Okuda, who "came up" through fandom thought all ships had unique emblems. Until the Justman memo came to light, I think 99.9% of fandom thought that. I know I did. The myth about posing the bodies on the Defiant to hide the delta took root decades ago and I'm sure those in charge of costuming for ENT thought they were righting a wrong cause by a limited budget.
Wow! Really cool stuff here. Wish we could hear from okuda directly. Lovely thread. Thanks all.
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Old February 7 2014, 08:10 AM   #95
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

plynch wrote: View Post
I so prefer the every-ship-with-its-own idea. Same rank braids and division colors across starfleet, but each ship gets to take a little pride in itself when interacting with people from different vessels.


Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Probably because folks like Mike Okuda, who "came up" through fandom thought all ships had unique emblems. Until the Justman memo came to light, I think 99.9% of fandom thought that. I know I did. The myth about posing the bodies on the Defiant to hide the delta took root decades ago and I'm sure those in charge of costuming for ENT thought they were righting a wrong cause by a limited budget.
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Old February 7 2014, 02:13 PM   #96
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

PCz911 wrote: View Post
Wow! Really cool stuff here. Wish we could hear from okuda directly.
He is a BBS member, so he could drop by.
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Old February 8 2014, 08:23 PM   #97
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

A former student now in the Navy spoke to my classes Friday. On his nametag he is allowed to affix a little symbol of the state of New Mexico, since his sub is the Santa Fe. Not quite the same, but a little customization to allow for ship's pride.
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Old February 10 2014, 05:50 AM   #98
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

Harvey, did you ever come across any other memos regarding the uniform patches besides the IJM ("Infamous Justman Memo)?
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Old February 10 2014, 05:54 AM   #99
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

None yet, I'm afraid.
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Old February 10 2014, 06:41 AM   #100
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

I still find it amazing that no one apparently caught the use of a separate starship patch in "The Doomsday Machine." Given Justman's reaction in the IJM, that seems really shocking.

I know Justman missed the first couple of season two productions with a hip infection, but The DDM was the sixth episode produced and he was surely back on the job by then. I just can't understand how this happened.
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Old February 10 2014, 01:08 PM   #101
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Probably because folks like Mike Okuda, who "came up" through fandom thought all ships had unique emblems. Until the Justman memo came to light, I think 99.9% of fandom thought that.
I concur but IIRC this concept was suggested by the various different insignias featured in TAS.

Back in the 1970's and prior to TMP, TAS had a quasi-official canon status and the amount of TAS materials Bjo Trimble covered in her Star Trek Concordance is a testament to that, IMHO.

And unless I'm mistaken Geoffrey Mandel's popular Officers Flight Manual also featured individual (conjectural) starship insignias.

Bob
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Old February 10 2014, 02:19 PM   #102
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

CrazyMatt wrote: View Post
I still find it amazing that no one apparently caught the use of a separate starship patch in "The Doomsday Machine." Given Justman's reaction in the IJM, that seems really shocking.
Well, Decker was the only one seen wearing it. Maybe it was meant to be a commodore's insignia rather than the ship's insignia?
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Old February 12 2014, 03:07 AM   #103
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Not to derail the thread, but I'm just wondering if there are any similar letters or memos indicating the time period in which the series is set. Something like, "I noticed a mistake in 'Space Seed' setting STAR TREK in the 22nd Century when we recently decided the show was set in the 23rd Century; no need to change anything, just be aware for future episodes."
The time frame of the series was kept intentionally vague, since they didn't want to make any firm assumptions about the rate of technological progress. That's why they invented the deliberate gibberish of stardates. But mostly the estimates did tend to hover around 2-300 years in the future, with "The Squire of Gothos" being the one outlier (placing the series in at least the early 28th century, since Trelane was 900 light-years from Earth and aware of things from the early 19th century).

However, the second-season writers' guide (the only one I have a copy of) does mention that the time frame is "actually about two hundred years from now." I wouldn't be surprised if that was added to the revised guide based on what "Tomorrow is Yesterday" and "Space Seed" had established.

I believe the earliest reference to ST being in the 23rd century was probably in The Making of Star Trek.
Also, 200 years doesn't rule out the early years of the 2200s.
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Old February 12 2014, 05:44 AM   #104
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

I don't know why people think that The Squire of Gothos established the time-frame as 800 or 900 years in the future. All I get from the episode is that Gothos must be 800 or 900 light-years from Earth.

Think about it for a second: If right now we built and launched a faster-than-light starship that traveled 100 times the speed of light (ignoring for a moment the Einsteinian time dilation stuff), we'd get to Gothos in 8 or 9 years. Yet, from the view of Earth from there, we'd see things from 8 or 9 centuries past. It's not about time, it's about distance.

That's my take on it, anyway!
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Old February 12 2014, 06:32 AM   #105
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

^ Christopher explained this pretty well. The episode says explicitly that Gothos is 900 ly from Earth, so Kirk tells Trelane he's looking in on Earth from "900 years past". But since Trelane was familiar with things in either the late 18th or early 19th century, then 900 years after that would put ST in the late 27th or early 28th century, or roughly 700 years in our future.

(There may be other references, but the one I'm thinking of is that Trelane mentioned that he admired Napoleon.)

So you're right, it is about distance, but other references in the ep can be used to establish an approximate time as well!
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