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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old January 30 2014, 10:56 PM   #76
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

Maurice wrote: View Post
Or, the ship's laundry just makes you a uniform with all the appropriate insignia and ribbons.
Yep, this is what I always assumed.
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Old January 30 2014, 11:44 PM   #77
Robert Comsol
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

Maurice wrote: View Post
We never really get to see the results of Justman's memo because it came at the tail end of Season 2 production, and the only Season 3 non-Enterprise Starfleet people we see (if I recall correctly) are the dead crew of the Defiant.
Actually I think that what we saw or actually didn't see in "The Tholian Web" was a straight result from this memo.

All the extras were positioned not to show the insignia (two bodies in sickbay, however, show the delta).
Either that's a compromise they agreed upon to appease Bob Justman or he just said - no more budget for new costumes...

Bob
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Old January 31 2014, 08:41 AM   #78
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
All the extras were positioned not to show the insignia (two bodies in sickbay, however, show the delta).
Either that's a compromise they agreed upon to appease Bob Justman or he just said - no more budget for new costumes...

Bob
The latter must have played a factor... a number of the Defiant crew are seen in velour shirts, which were no longer in regular use in Season 3.
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Old January 31 2014, 08:50 AM   #79
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

As Justman said "no more new insignia for Starships" then there was no reason to hide anything, and the fact that we see a few bodies where the insignia is visible when they could easily have hidden it indicates there was likely no effort to hide it at all. I swear, sometimes people read too much intent into things like how bodies are laid around.
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Old January 31 2014, 12:45 PM   #80
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

Please feel free to help yourself and check out the "Tholian Web" screencaps at Trekcore.

The one thing that is obvious, is that they carefully positioned the overwhelming majorities of extras in a fashion to hide the insignia. That's a red thread from Defiant's bridge down to sickbay and from there to "life-support" and engineering.

There are only two extras in sickbay where the delta is discernible in HD, but on a standard TV set of the 1960's it was practically impossible or difficult to see.

Since a different starship insignia had been shown in "The Omega Glory" (inspiring the infamous Justman memo), not to reveal the insignia of the Defiant was obviously a perfect solution to the issue, left for future generations to be discussed. ()

Bob
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Old January 31 2014, 04:21 PM   #81
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
I suspect that that secretary or whatever with the arrowhead in "The Menagerie" was just a costuming blunder that fell through the cracks, and even if someone along the line caught it, it wasn't considered important enough to fix and/or they decided no viewer would notice or care.
No doubt. But in-universe... Suppose Starfleet is divided into "fleet" and "base," or "space" and "ground, " or "fleet operations" and "fleet support," or whatever you prefer ("outpost" might be a further category). "Fleet" personnel wear the insignia of their unit (fleet, squadron, command, whatever you prefer), "base" wear the flower badge. But starbases support operating units, so it would be understandable if there was some overlap of "fleet" personnel working at the base, even though they might ultimately report to a different command than the "base" personnel.
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Old January 31 2014, 04:24 PM   #82
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
I suspect that that secretary or whatever with the arrowhead in "The Menagerie" was just a costuming blunder that fell through the cracks, and even if someone along the line caught it, it wasn't considered important enough to fix and/or they decided no viewer would notice or care.
No doubt. But in-universe... Suppose Starfleet is divided into "fleet" and "base," or "space" and "ground, " or "fleet operations" and "fleet support," or whatever you prefer ("outpost" might be a further category). "Fleet" personnel wear the insignia of their unit (fleet, squadron, command, whatever you prefer), "base" wear the flower badge. But starbases support operating units, so it would be understandable if there was some overlap of "fleet" personnel working at the base, even though they might ultimately report to a different command than the "base" personnel.
Wow, so like a liaison officer? I'm sold.
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Old February 1 2014, 09:20 AM   #83
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

I see one in the Emergency Manual Monitor, two in the Sickbay ward, and one laying on the examination table chest up with the insignia side turned towards the camera. If they were trying to hide them they'd never have positioned the lattermost in that way.
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Old February 1 2014, 12:59 PM   #84
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

I don't know what is is you are seeing, but except for the one redshirt strapped onto a sickbay bed, everything else is essentially the reflection of some kind of indiscernible insignia.



Had there really been any intention to clearly reveal the [delta] insignia of the Defiant crew I would have expected to see something like aboard the Exeter in "The Omega Glory".

Bob
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Old February 1 2014, 09:49 PM   #85
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

The trouble here is that this is all presumption. Minus memos or statements either way there's no way to know for certain. My point is simply Justman handed down the edict that starship crews wear the arrowheads, not other badges, and next time we see a starship crew, lo, they bear the approved insignia and several of them are face up with the badges unobstructed. I'm willing to entertain the idea that maybe they didn't want to draw attention to them, but likewise you should be willing to consider it's perhaps just a coincidence of the way the bodies were positioned. Either is not a "fact".
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Old February 2 2014, 12:37 AM   #86
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?



The female in the blue uniform (by the small overturned table) not only is face up, but the way the light is catching her Delta insignia makes it especially visible.

And this isn't just something you can see on High-def or Blu-ray, it's very apparent on normal-def TV as well.




And there's this guy laying in a sickbay bed, face up, insignia fully on display.


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Old February 2 2014, 01:03 AM   #87
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

But then "In a Mirror, Darkly" went and contradicted this by giving the Defiant uniforms a distinct insignia, based on the Starfleet Command chevron that was often seen on the wall behind admirals on the viewscreen, and that's part of the "racing stripes" on the side of the Enterprise engineering hull.
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Old February 2 2014, 01:50 AM   #88
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

I so prefer the every-ship-with-its-own idea. Same rank braids and division colors across starfleet, but each ship gets to take a little pride in itself when interacting with people from different vessels.
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Old February 2 2014, 02:33 AM   #89
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

Christopher wrote: View Post
But then "In a Mirror, Darkly" went and contradicted this by giving the Defiant uniforms a distinct insignia, based on the Starfleet Command chevron that was often seen on the wall behind admirals on the viewscreen, and that's part of the "racing stripes" on the side of the Enterprise engineering hull.
Probably because folks like Mike Okuda, who "came up" through fandom thought all ships had unique emblems. Until the Justman memo came to light, I think 99.9% of fandom thought that. I know I did. The myth about posing the bodies on the Defiant to hide the delta took root decades ago and I'm sure those in charge of costuming for ENT thought they were righting a wrong cause by a limited budget.
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Old February 2 2014, 02:50 AM   #90
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Re: Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

There is a part of one of the picture-in-picture commentaries on season one by Okuda (and others) where they point out the arrowhead emblem showing up on officers from other ships in "Court Martial" -- although that was recorded after "In A Mirror Darkly" was made.
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