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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old January 20 2014, 08:19 PM   #16
Sindatur
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Re: Theory regarding the super-fast trip from Qo'noS to Earth

Dukhat wrote: View Post
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I've always thought they used a wormhole or trans-warp conduit to reach the galaxy center in ST V.
But that was never mentioned in the film. But let's play devil's advocate and say you're right. That would mean one of two things:

1. Either Starfleet had the technology to create wormholes or transwarp conduits, or

2. It was a natural occurrence or accident that caused the Enterprise-A to get there.

Neither of these options really make sense. If Starfleet had the technology, then what happened to it by the TNG era? And if it was just an accident, how did the Ent-A get back?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
They probably retrofitted Enterprise-A with the transwarp drive from USS Excelsior.
So the Excelsior could have reached the center of the galaxy in 30 minutes as well? Why couldn't the Enterprise-D do the same thing, 75 years later?
I lean more towards it took longer than it seemed screentime-wise, but, we've never seen TNG time frame in this timeline, so, if, they used a new Technology, or a Wormhole, you have no way of knowing if it's still available in TNG Time Frame
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Old January 21 2014, 09:20 PM   #17
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Re: Theory regarding the super-fast trip from Qo'noS to Earth

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
They probably retrofitted Enterprise-A with the transwarp drive from USS Excelsior.
So the Excelsior could have reached the center of the galaxy in 30 minutes as well? Why couldn't the Enterprise-D do the same thing, 75 years later?
What makes you think it couldn't?
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Old January 21 2014, 09:38 PM   #18
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Re: Theory regarding the super-fast trip from Qo'noS to Earth

"The Nth Degree" seems to suggest the centre of the galaxy is unreachably far away (while at the same time showing us the Cytherians who may well be the same species as STV's Big Giant Head)
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Old January 21 2014, 09:41 PM   #19
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Re: Theory regarding the super-fast trip from Qo'noS to Earth

-Brett- wrote: View Post
I don't recall anything suggesting the travel time was actually only a few minutes. They just skipped over the travel time.
If you actually watch the part of the film in question you'll see that that excuse doesn't work this time.
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Old January 21 2014, 10:08 PM   #20
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Re: Theory regarding the super-fast trip from Qo'noS to Earth

In all honesty, I'm inclined to issue a complete divorce between TOS and TNG over "irreconcilable differences," the anomalously high warp speeds being only the most prominent offender. TNG+ warp speeds seem way too slow (under the normal TNG scale, Enterprise-D would need a four year voyage just to get out of Federation space).
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Old January 22 2014, 03:51 AM   #21
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Re: Theory regarding the super-fast trip from Qo'noS to Earth

Simple answer is that there's little logic to this film when it comes to traveling between the two planets. It takes a few mins to reach Kronos, yet it takes a few seconds to go back. Even stranger, they were knocked out of warp right when they reached the moon, as if they would have kept going if it weren't for the Vengeance firing at them. Crazy huh? It's simply an aspect that the film doesn't really care about because the film wants to have the climax take place in San Fransisco dammit and it wants it now!
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Old January 22 2014, 08:20 AM   #22
Dukhat
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Re: Theory regarding the super-fast trip from Qo'noS to Earth

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
They probably retrofitted Enterprise-A with the transwarp drive from USS Excelsior.
So the Excelsior could have reached the center of the galaxy in 30 minutes as well? Why couldn't the Enterprise-D do the same thing, 75 years later?
What makes you think it couldn't?
Becuase TNG was based on actual scientific principles, while STV was just a badly written piece of crap?

Plus the fact that if the Ent-D could do it, so could Voyager. Which would have meant that they would have been stuck in the Delta Quadrant for all of an hour.
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Old January 22 2014, 10:00 AM   #23
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Re: Theory regarding the super-fast trip from Qo'noS to Earth

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Becuase TNG was based on actual scientific principles, while STV was just a badly written piece of crap?
Half right, at best. TNG's warp drive wasn't based on actual scientific principles to any greater degree than the warp drive was in any other incarnation of Star Trek.
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Old January 22 2014, 10:22 AM   #24
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Re: Theory regarding the super-fast trip from Qo'noS to Earth

No show that had an episode where the transporter turns them into children and they learn the meaning of fun, or where the crew de-evolve into everything from fish girls to man spiders gets to be called "based on actual scientific principles"
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Old January 22 2014, 10:26 AM   #25
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Re: Theory regarding the super-fast trip from Qo'noS to Earth

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Dukhat wrote: View Post
Becuase TNG was based on actual scientific principles, while STV was just a badly written piece of crap?
Half right, at best. TNG's warp drive wasn't based on actual scientific principles to any greater degree than the warp drive was in any other incarnation of Star Trek.
Be that as it may, I find it more believable that a ship has to take 70 years at a certain warp speed to get from one side of the galaxy to another, rather than a ship getting to the center of the galaxy in a matter of minutes using the same fictional warp scale.
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Old January 22 2014, 10:33 AM   #26
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Re: Theory regarding the super-fast trip from Qo'noS to Earth

According to actual scientific principles, crossing the galaxy in 70 years is like taking a magic carpet ride, using an actual carpet!
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Old January 22 2014, 02:42 PM   #27
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Re: Theory regarding the super-fast trip from Qo'noS to Earth

I prefer how warp speeds have been done by TNG not because it's more "scientifically accurate" but rather that it emphasizes how vast space is. They state that only 18% had been explored and that really tells you how far they have come since Kirk's era. Maybe that's a retcon, but so is STV suddenly having the E-A make it to the center of the galaxy after TNG established that it would have never happened unless there were certain circumstances to create that scenario.

I simply prefer Trek to try being consistent about its universe functions, not too strict but at the same time not too blatant on how nothing makes sense therefore why should I believe in it. nuTrek isn't even trying to be consistent with itself, not even if you narrow it down to just STID. That's how the Bad Robot folks do their thing, I don't care for it, but as we can see in this thread and forum there are fans who couldn't care less and just wanna enjoy the spectacle. All the power to them.
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Old January 22 2014, 04:57 PM   #28
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Re: Theory regarding the super-fast trip from Qo'noS to Earth

TNG threw TOS continuity under the bus, so it's not like TNG wasn't already doing its own thing.
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Old January 22 2014, 07:14 PM   #29
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Re: Theory regarding the super-fast trip from Qo'noS to Earth

Each new production team has always thrown the previous under the bus, starting with Rodenberry himself and TMP (the novelization of which suggests that the original series was an over-dramatization of Kirk's five year mission).
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Old January 22 2014, 11:46 PM   #30
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Theory regarding the super-fast trip from Qo'noS to Earth

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post

So the Excelsior could have reached the center of the galaxy in 30 minutes as well? Why couldn't the Enterprise-D do the same thing, 75 years later?
What makes you think it couldn't?
Becuase TNG was based on actual scientific principles
BWAAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!

while STV was just a badly written piece of crap?
STV was a piece of crap, but I'm not convinced it was badly written. Quite the contrary, I think it was extraordinarily well written and had a lot of potential as a story.

It was just badly DIRECTED.

Plus the fact that if the Ent-D could do it, so could Voyager.
Yeah, because VOYAGER is famous for being well-written and internally consistent.

Dukhat wrote: View Post
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Dukhat wrote: View Post
Becuase TNG was based on actual scientific principles, while STV was just a badly written piece of crap?
Half right, at best. TNG's warp drive wasn't based on actual scientific principles to any greater degree than the warp drive was in any other incarnation of Star Trek.
Be that as it may, I find it more believable that a ship has to take 70 years at a certain warp speed to get from one side of the galaxy to another, rather than a ship getting to the center of the galaxy in a matter of minutes using the same fictional warp scale.
I don't. Mainly because in the REAL WORLD, a starship traveling under warp power wouldn't be limited to a finite speed (measured relative to WHAT, exactly?) and would spend half of its journey accelerating at a constant rate -- 4,000 gs or something -- and then turn around and decelerate for the other half of the trip.

Your travel time would actually be a function of AVERAGE speed, which in turn would be a function of distance and your maximum sustainable acceleration curve. It also probably wouldn't be as simple as "point the ship at Earth and hit the gas" since you would also have to account for gravitational influence of everything else in the galaxy, including the galactic core. Since you don't necessarily know where all of those gravitational sources are (seeing how you are in uncharted space and all) you're going to have to make an assload of midcourse corrections along the way, which means that your actual travel time will be virtually impossible to calculate ahead of time.

If you're going to split hairs on what is "believable" then we're stuck with the fact that warp drive has NEVER been presented in a halfway realistic manner and it is only the smug pretenses of the TNG era that led us to think otherwise.
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