RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,245
Posts: 5,438,900
Members: 24,958
Currently online: 412
Newest member: greatmovies

TrekToday headlines

Cumberbatch In Wax
By: T'Bonz on Oct 24

Trek Screenwriter Washington D.C. Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Oct 23

Two Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Oct 22

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 17 2013, 01:57 AM   #1
Agenda
Fleet Captain
 
Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

There have been many defenses made of Spock's emotional displays in both STID and the 2009 film. Even if I agreed that these displays are fully justified given the plot, I wouldn't agree that this version of the character is nearly as interesting as the one we've come to know over the past 45+ years.

I guess one could argue that that Spock yelling, crying and screaming every movie is a "fresh" approach. But I don't think this is a character who needs a fresh approach. I think of many of the best episodes and movies of Trek and many of the best showings of the character, and in those appearances, he barely reveals any emotion - or if he does it's very subtly done.

Now, I don't object to Spock occasionally showing emotion. There were always those "exceptions" - those occasional episodes where he shows glimpses of emotion or goes all out. In fact, these were partly what made the character tantalizing over the years of his existence, partly because they reminded us about the parts of himself that he was always repressing. I also think these occurrences made him interesting because they were relatively rare.

But they're rare no longer. And I feel they've gone way overboard. They've turned these exceptions into almost the rule - in two movies in a row - and I just don't think it's a very interesting approach to the character in the least - even if it can be argued that the plot of the movie justifies it.
Agenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17 2013, 02:13 AM   #2
Makarov
Commander
 
Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

I saw Zachary Quinto at comic con and he said something about Spock evolving into a more TOS non-emotional Spock over the course of these new movies. But really his emotional moments still feel rare to me.
Makarov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17 2013, 02:24 AM   #3
Rainbow Dash
Rainbow Horse Man
 
Rainbow Dash's Avatar
 
Location: J. Allen's House
Send a message via ICQ to Rainbow Dash Send a message via AIM to Rainbow Dash Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Rainbow Dash Send a message via Yahoo to Rainbow Dash
Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

"Billions of your race have died, including your mother."

"Indeed."

/end movie
__________________
I think heaven is what you make it. When I close my eyes for the final time, I hope to wake up standing in a grassy, breezy, sunlit field, a green tennis ball at my feet, and a little black lab, with a white diamond on her chest, running right towards me.
Rainbow Dash is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 17 2013, 02:29 AM   #4
CorporalClegg
Admiral
 
CorporalClegg's Avatar
 
Location: Land of Enchantment
Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

Old Spock cried in the first one. His female counterpart cried in the second one. He screamed in the third one. Laughed in the fourth one. And yelled and mentally raped someone in the sixth one.
__________________
Konnichi wa!
CorporalClegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17 2013, 02:30 AM   #5
austen_pierce
Captain
 
austen_pierce's Avatar
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

Spock has had a rough couple of years. The loss of his mother, his home-world, then (briefly) his best friend, Kirk, just as he's beginning to understand the nature of their relationship.

It's warranted. Should they always go there? Maybe not as cranked up to 11 as this, but an emotional Spock, especially expressing his friendship to Kirk, is foundational. We lose this at the risk of losing part of the soul of Trek.
austen_pierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17 2013, 03:13 AM   #6
Khan444
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

People act like Nimoy Spock never showed emotion, he did. The very fact that he was lifelong friends with Kirk and Bones is a show of emotion in an of itself. He had a sense of humor, he got angry, he could be romantic, he was an emotional being, no matter how much he tried not to be. Quinto's Spock is younger and less experienced, so of course he might be more emotional. He also saw his mother die right in front of him, his world crumble right in front of him, 99.9% of his race be wiped out, that affects a person and Nimoy's Spock didn't go through that when he was younger. In STID, he saw his friend die right in front of him. Both are great characters. If you notice, Nimoy Spock seems more openly emotional in the 2009 film in his scenes with Kirk/Young Spock. He even says that Spock should do what FEELS right. So maybe old Spock finally came to terms with his emotions and accepted them.
Khan444 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17 2013, 05:39 AM   #7
Rainbow Dash
Rainbow Horse Man
 
Rainbow Dash's Avatar
 
Location: J. Allen's House
Send a message via ICQ to Rainbow Dash Send a message via AIM to Rainbow Dash Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Rainbow Dash Send a message via Yahoo to Rainbow Dash
Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

Khan444 wrote: View Post
People act like Nimoy Spock never showed emotion, he did. The very fact that he was lifelong friends with Kirk and Bones is a show of emotion in an of itself. He had a sense of humor, he got angry, he could be romantic, he was an emotional being, no matter how much he tried not to be. Quinto's Spock is younger and less experienced, so of course he might be more emotional. He also saw his mother die right in front of him, his world crumble right in front of him, 99.9% of his race be wiped out, that affects a person and Nimoy's Spock didn't go through that when he was younger. In STID, he saw his friend die right in front of him. Both are great characters. If you notice, Nimoy Spock seems more openly emotional in the 2009 film in his scenes with Kirk/Young Spock. He even says that Spock should do what FEELS right. So maybe old Spock finally came to terms with his emotions and accepted them.
Agreed. You can see signs in the later movies, where Spock starts to express more emotion than he once did, especially after he had "died."
__________________
I think heaven is what you make it. When I close my eyes for the final time, I hope to wake up standing in a grassy, breezy, sunlit field, a green tennis ball at my feet, and a little black lab, with a white diamond on her chest, running right towards me.
Rainbow Dash is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 17 2013, 05:42 AM   #8
Peach Wookiee
Cuddly Mod of Doom
 
Peach Wookiee's Avatar
 
Location: Peach Wookiee
Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

I'd argue Spock Prime is telling his younger self what he wishes someone had said to him. And he's lived with the Romulans for a while too, so he's learned that emotion doesn't have to be destructive.
Peach Wookiee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17 2013, 05:45 AM   #9
Dead Possum
An Ex-Awesome Possum
 
Dead Possum's Avatar
 
Location: Your Nightmares
View Dead Possum's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to Dead Possum Send a message via AIM to Dead Possum
Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

There's a great scene in Devil in the Dark where Spock thinks a mine has collapsed on Kirk and clearly gets upset that he might get hurt. First he's all serious and goes to running and yelling "Jim". I always liked that Spock always had a soft spot for his friends, especially Kirk.
__________________
"We're not rotting, we're fermenting!"
Dead Possum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17 2013, 08:35 AM   #10
Mutoid
Fleet Captain
 
Mutoid's Avatar
 
Location: CommishSleer
View Mutoid's Twitter Profile
Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

I know there are reasons for Spock's emotionalism in nuTrek but I still liked it better in TOS.

Sure Spock was plenty emotional in TOS. All that had to happen was Kirk get in danger or be angry with him. But it was more subtle over 79 episodes and so much more rewarding when you got to see it.

Sometimes when you see nuTrek Spock you just think its just inevitable he's going to go ballistic at some point. You never thought that about Nimoy Spock (except in Amok Time, This Side of Paradise, The Naked Time, Mirror Mirror - well OK quite a few times LOL)
Mutoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17 2013, 08:38 AM   #11
Rainbow Dash
Rainbow Horse Man
 
Rainbow Dash's Avatar
 
Location: J. Allen's House
Send a message via ICQ to Rainbow Dash Send a message via AIM to Rainbow Dash Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Rainbow Dash Send a message via Yahoo to Rainbow Dash
Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
I know there are reasons for Spock's emotionalism in nuTrek but I still liked it better in TOS.

Sure Spock was plenty emotional in TOS. All that had to happen was Kirk get in danger or be angry with him. But it was more subtle over 79 episodes and so much more rewarding when you got to see it.

Sometimes when you see nuTrek Spock you just think its just inevitable he's going to go ballistic at some point. You never thought that about Nimoy Spock (except in Amok Time, This Side of Paradise, The Naked Time, Mirror Mirror - well OK quite a few times LOL)
Again, though, unique situation here. Nimoy's Spock never had to deal with the annihilation of his people, the obliteration of his home planet, or the death of his mother when he was much younger. All of this happened at once for Spock, and I think in the movies he's still sorting it all out.
__________________
I think heaven is what you make it. When I close my eyes for the final time, I hope to wake up standing in a grassy, breezy, sunlit field, a green tennis ball at my feet, and a little black lab, with a white diamond on her chest, running right towards me.
Rainbow Dash is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 17 2013, 10:35 AM   #12
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

J. Allen wrote: View Post
"Billions of your race have died, including your mother."

"Indeed."

/end movie
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
F. King Daniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17 2013, 10:47 AM   #13
Rainbow Dash
Rainbow Horse Man
 
Rainbow Dash's Avatar
 
Location: J. Allen's House
Send a message via ICQ to Rainbow Dash Send a message via AIM to Rainbow Dash Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Rainbow Dash Send a message via Yahoo to Rainbow Dash
Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
"Billions of your race have died, including your mother."

"Indeed."

/end movie
Thank you, sir.
__________________
I think heaven is what you make it. When I close my eyes for the final time, I hope to wake up standing in a grassy, breezy, sunlit field, a green tennis ball at my feet, and a little black lab, with a white diamond on her chest, running right towards me.
Rainbow Dash is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 17 2013, 02:40 PM   #14
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

Spock has totally shown more emotion in these two movies than he ever did in TOS when he wasn't under alien influence. Yes, there are extenuating circumstances, and so on but it has definitely gone too far. Having Spock cry during Kirk's death scene is certainly out of character. Hell, Kirk reacted more Vulcan like when Spock died in TWOK than Spock did when Kirk died in STID.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17 2013, 03:34 PM   #15
Peach Wookiee
Cuddly Mod of Doom
 
Peach Wookiee's Avatar
 
Location: Peach Wookiee
Re: Are we forgetting why Spock is a great character?

You forget, though, that in TOS his planet was still there, his mom was still alive and he was trying to be a perfect little Vulcan to please his father.
Peach Wookiee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:03 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.