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Old January 20 2014, 02:54 AM   #31
teacake
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

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Casting hurt, a lot.

A more credible Anakin (at both ages) would have helped immensely.

If you simply can't believe that Anakin is incredibly talented and capable - that it's possible for him to grow up to be Vader - the movies can't work, even if you have great scripts (and they didn't). It's like casting Pauly Shore as T.E. Lawrence and expecting Lawrence of Arabia to be a good film.
I love TPM and AOTC but totally agree about the casting of Anakin. And the writing I would have liked to see Anakin as incredibly charismatic, sexy, a young man people were drawn to, a character that even after he turned would have followers and not just because he was one big weapon. He should be a character that has a huge fan following and he is not. Yes Darth Vader is iconic, but the man in the suit, Anakin Skywalker who we all wondered about for years and years was just a whiny, sad, arrogant jerk. You should be able to go on tumblr and see people swooning over Anakin, instead he's been the butt of jokes since AOTC came out.

This is clearly a failure. I don't think the whole is a failure, and I accept that this is canon Vader but it was a hugely missed opportunity.
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Old January 20 2014, 03:19 AM   #32
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

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Yeah, that was pretty much the same facial reaction I had when I read that post.
Seriously! In fact, talking about this just made me remember an EMPIRE STRIKES BACK memory. I was over a girlfriend's apartment, I had at the time. I'm in her bed, flipping the channels and come across EMPIRE, whilst she's in the shower. It was in the middle of the Imperial Walker sequence on Hoth and I'm thinking this looks Photoshopped, or some junk. She comes out, toweling her hair and sees what I've got on T.V., and goes, "what the hell's this stupid shit you're watching?" And you know what? I totally feigned ignorance and said, "... yeah, I know. Boring, too and I only just turned it on." So, I'm not alone in my assessment of EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. There are others ...
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Old January 20 2014, 03:49 AM   #33
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

2takes you betrayed and murdered your ESB!
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Old January 20 2014, 03:54 AM   #34
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

Don't I know it? She made me watch Josie & the Pussy Cats with her, instead, starring Tara Reid. 2 hours of pure, unfiltered bovine excrement. Apparently my pretending to her that I liked it worked so well that she got me it as a Birthday present ... It's not so bad, really, if I watch it in French.
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Old January 20 2014, 03:56 AM   #35
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

At least we can agree on Josie. That's the kind of movie where you get ten minutes in, black out and wake up in a truckstop diner parking lot in Colorado. You're half-naked, broke and have no memory how you got there, but you're just glad you're not watching the rest of Josie.
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Old January 20 2014, 04:01 AM   #36
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

Yep! And that's just how I feel about Attack of the Clones, in particular ...
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Old January 20 2014, 04:06 AM   #37
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

It's been a long time since I've read the Star Wars books and even then, I was never much into them.

However, I do think my disappointment in the prequels has more to do with fact that, being born in 1979, and I figure I was about 6 or 7 when I saw the movies and really started to think about them. So that's roughly 12-13 years worth of wondering how Anakin became Vader, how the Jedis died out, how the Republic gave way to the Empire etc., before the Phantom Menance and closer to 20 years before Revenge of the Sith.

That's a little over a decade to build up things in my mind before the first of the trilogy, and an addition 6-7 years to come up with things between the first and last of the movies.

I can't remember specifics, but I do remember not including a huge dose of politics, making the Jedi chaste, having Anakin be whiny, etc.

I guess the biggest disappointment was seeing the Clone Wars themselves. I kept picturing a war of Jedis fighting cloned versions of themselves, or something else. Having the titular clones be clones of Boba Fett's father and turning them into the forerunners of the Stormtroopers which fought for the Republic wasn't what I had in mind.
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Old January 20 2014, 04:13 AM   #38
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

I like the politics a great deal, it's so much less good vs evil than we thought it was about during the OT.

As to the Jedi being chaste, it's attachments that are forbidden not sex.
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Old January 20 2014, 04:23 AM   #39
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

^
Which makes even less sense, though I thought, as I was typing that "chaste" was probably not the best word. It makes the Jedi look less like the Knights of the Republic and more like cult members, forced to sever their ties with everyone and everything outside of the group.
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Old January 20 2014, 04:25 AM   #40
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

I was briefly obsessed with everything Star Wars from about age seven to eleven (basically, when I was in elementary school). I loved the interconnection of everything in the expanded universe -- how I could go from reading a book, to playing a PC game, to reading a comic, and watch stories unfold and notice references made across all the different media. I suppose Shadows of the Empire, which came out during this period, was the apotheosis of this (it helped that the special editions of the OT was released theatrically in '97).

My interest in the books vanished with The New Jedi Order series. I might have read a few pages of "Vector Prime," but I certainly didn't get close to finishing it. The Phantom Menace probably didn't help sustain my interest -- my brother and I had a lot of stuff related to that movie. When it turned out the movie wasn't great (and then, a few years later, the second prequel was even worse) my interest in Star Wars vanished.

When I finally revisited the OT years later, I was happy to learn that the movies were actually quite good. Jedi might be my favorite, although it's obviously the least of the three, with a disjointed structure and a juvenile miscalculation with the Ewosk, but the Emperor/Luke/Vader duel is my favorite sequence in the series.

Since 2005, I've seen bits and pieces of the prequel trilogy on TV and always had to turn them off. John Williams' work aside, they're horrible.
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Old January 20 2014, 04:36 AM   #41
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

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I like the politics a great deal, it's so much less good vs evil than we thought it was about during the OT.
This, multiplied. Sure, any film risks becoming plodding and dull when it introduces the subjects of politics and internecine legislative bickering into the fray, but Episodes I-III for all their many flaws made the SW universe a bit more three-dimensional and introduced interesting grey area that the OT either underplayed or didn't bother to touch upon.
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Old January 20 2014, 04:58 AM   #42
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

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^
Which makes even less sense, though I thought, as I was typing that "chaste" was probably not the best word. It makes the Jedi look less like the Knights of the Republic and more like cult members, forced to sever their ties with everyone and everything outside of the group.
I think that is actually the point! They had become like cult members and it blurred their judgement. The order was more important than the person in front of them at times (don't tell me they couldn't hock some trinket in the Jedi temple and buy Anakin's mother out of slavery). But she was unimportant to them, she was not Jedi and ultimately she only served to bring forth a padawan. A padawan who might have turned out a little more normal if they hadn't taken him away from his family in favor of a cult.
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Old January 20 2014, 05:11 AM   #43
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

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teacake wrote: View Post
I like the politics a great deal, it's so much less good vs evil than we thought it was about during the OT.
This, multiplied. Sure, any film risks becoming plodding and dull when it introduces the subjects of politics and internecine legislative bickering into the fray, but Episodes I-III for all their many flaws made the SW universe a bit more three-dimensional and introduced interesting grey area that the OT either underplayed or didn't bother to touch upon.
And since the past details are so bulldozed or in the case of the Jedi dead I suspect they are doomed to repeat themselves. I like that in the PT secessionists are seen as rocking the boat and not given any real credence by the Jedi because who would want to leave the Federation? Hell, you even want Cloners to join. Root beer for everyone. And then in TCW we see how manipulative and dodgy the repression of the secession really is.. and still the tighter the Republic grip the more star systems slip through their fingers. And in the OT the balance has indeed seesawed the other way.

And of course history will rewrite it because the monstrosity the Empire became is what people will remember. The secessionists were doomed by who they are in bed with but at least in TCW we can see that these two great powers, the Jedi and the Sith, ultimately treat everyone as pawns.
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Old January 20 2014, 05:12 AM   #44
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
I like the politics a great deal, it's so much less good vs evil than we thought it was about during the OT.
This, multiplied. Sure, any film risks becoming plodding and dull when it introduces the subjects of politics and internecine legislative bickering into the fray, but Episodes I-III for all their many flaws made the SW universe a bit more three-dimensional and introduced interesting grey area that the OT either underplayed or didn't bother to touch upon.
Agreed. Very well put, teacake.

I thought that the idea of using a manufactured threat, or in other words a phantom menace (cf a phantom punch or a phantom limb), to draw the Republic into a staged conflict and kick-start the Emperor's rise to power, was extraordinarily intriguing.

In the Death Star conference room scene in the original film, it was made reasonably clear that the Emperor would rise to power by wrapping himself in the cloak of legitimacy and molding the Republic from within, as opposed to overthrowing it outright. Otherwise, why would there still be a Senate left to dissolve? Nevertheless, I enjoyed watching that intrigue play out in the PT, including the expansion of the phantom menace (at least in one sense of the words) into the Separatist movement, and especially the Emperor legally turning the Jedi into outlaws. The assassinations by Special Order 66 are heartbreaking.
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Old January 20 2014, 05:26 AM   #45
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

It's hard going watching The Clone Wars knowing those assassinations are ahead of them.
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