RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,629
Posts: 5,427,235
Members: 24,810
Currently online: 565
Newest member: Rom

TrekToday headlines

Trek Messenger Bag
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

Star Trek Live In Concert In Australia
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 18 2014, 11:29 PM   #31
Rarewolf
Rear Admiral
 
Rarewolf's Avatar
 
Location: Devon, England
Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

Apple Goblin wrote: View Post
Buffy's deep depression makes me uneasy just to think of it.
Then don't? She's a fictional character who's not been in new drama for a decade. You can't change her now.

There was a soap character in the UK a while back who had serious issues, 6 months later he was completely cured and 'normal' - I found that the least convincing aspect of it.
__________________
"Weaselling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals - except the weasels" Homer Jay Simpson
Rarewolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19 2014, 02:04 AM   #32
Chemahkuu
Vice Admiral
 
Chemahkuu's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Send a message via Yahoo to Chemahkuu
Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
The axe/scythe and the Shadow Men were all from the Fray comic.
Which they had planned for years prior. All the details of the two were in the original plans for the show, for whatever reason, they held off far too long incorporating them properly.

And the comic continuations...oy, that's a clusterfuck for another day.
__________________
"But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake."
Chemahkuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19 2014, 02:16 AM   #33
Hound of UIster
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

None of Whedon's comic work is any good.
Hound of UIster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19 2014, 02:27 AM   #34
Turtletrekker
Vice Admiral
 
Turtletrekker's Avatar
 
Location: Tacoma, Washington
Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

I actually love Fray and still see it as the future for the Buffy-verse.

While S9 was much better than S8, neither reached the heights hoped for.
__________________
I hate having thoughts on the top of my head. They usually jump off and commit suicide.
Turtletrekker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19 2014, 03:07 AM   #35
Kestrel
Vice Admiral
 
Kestrel's Avatar
 
Location: East Tennessee
Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
None of Whedon's comic work is any good.
I dunno, I really really like his X-Men run. The Danger arc was a bit iffy, but overall it's good stuff.
__________________
"If Romeo had just masturbated a couple of times a week he would have saved both those nice families a heap of trouble."
Kestrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19 2014, 03:09 AM   #36
Turtletrekker
Vice Admiral
 
Turtletrekker's Avatar
 
Location: Tacoma, Washington
Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

Oh, yeah! I was just thinking in context to his Buffy comics, but overall, his X-Men work was good. I even didn't totally hate the "Danger" arc.
__________________
I hate having thoughts on the top of my head. They usually jump off and commit suicide.
Turtletrekker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2014, 07:34 AM   #37
The Borgified Corpse
Admiral
 
The Borgified Corpse's Avatar
 
Location: Ouch! Forgotten already? You were just down there 20 minutes ago.
Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

gblews wrote: View Post
Hey, do Oz next: "Support characters who are autistic and don't know it". You're welcome.
Oz was quiet but seems pretty with it. He's not like Abed from Community.

Kestrel wrote: View Post
"Scythe." Alleged Scythe you mean. I remember reading about it before and thinking how awesome it was gonna be to see Buffy going all Grim Reaper, and then it's just a damned axe. A pretty sweet axe, all choppy and the stake-end is a nice touch, but in no way a scythe. /rant

Damn if that whole subplot didn't come right the fuck out of nowhere. And first introducing the Ancient Controlling Magic Men right on the heels of one of Buffy's worst moments, gahhh... such a messy end for the show.
Reminds me of the Circle of the Black Thorn at the end of Angel. That was also very abruptly introduced at the very end.

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
The axe/scythe and the Shadow Men were all from the Fray comic.
I wish that Fray was done as a TV show, or at least a set of animated DTV movies.

Buffy was just crazy depressing from Joyce's death onwards. I've never properly watched the last two seasons but the stuff I have seen was largely terrible.

Exceptions: "Once More with Feeling," "Tabula Rasa," Giles' badass entry in "Two to Go."
__________________
Kegg: "You're a Trekkie. The capacity to quibble over the minutiae of space opera films is your birthright."
The Borgified Corpse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2014, 12:36 PM   #38
AgentCoop
Fleet Captain
 
AgentCoop's Avatar
 
Location: Chillin' in the Black Lodge since June 10th, 1991
View AgentCoop's Twitter Profile
Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

The Circle Of The Black Thorn thing on Angel seems rushed because it was. They didn't find out from the network that they were getting cancelled until they were two-thirds of the way through the season. They had mere weeks to tie up four and a half years worth of show. Given those circumstances, I'd say the results are pretty impressive.
AgentCoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2014, 01:05 PM   #39
Lance
Commodore
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
It's amazing how you can use some of the worst moments of the show to build a case that she was crazy. Really goes to show how bad season 6 was.
Season 6 of BtVS was just unhinged. I don't know why, I don't know if maybe something went wrong behind the scenes? But for whatever reason, all of the ducks lined up at once... and created an entire season that was just totally over the edge.

While I appreciate Joss's thinking in wanting to make a season with the theme "Just Grow Up!", because he was clearly thinking along the lines of wanting the show to keep ahead of its comfort zone and avoid just being samey-samey and dying a slow death of endless repetition of themes, I think their efforts to completely destroy... well, everything that people had come to root for were completely misjudged.

And then Season 7 arguably compounded the problem by trying to recapture something of the pre-season 6 feel, which just made things feel even more hollow as a result. It's like, "Okay... so all that 'flaying people alive' shit didn't matter after all, right?"
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2014, 02:06 PM   #40
AgentCoop
Fleet Captain
 
AgentCoop's Avatar
 
Location: Chillin' in the Black Lodge since June 10th, 1991
View AgentCoop's Twitter Profile
Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

I think it's tough to argue that it "didn't matter" when two entire S7 episodes (as well as parts of others) are devoted to the fallout of Willow's actions in the previous season. Neither Willow nor her relationships with her friends are ever quite the same.
AgentCoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2014, 06:35 PM   #41
EnderAKH
Captain
 
EnderAKH's Avatar
 
Location: Dallas, TX
Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

Lance wrote: View Post
Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
It's amazing how you can use some of the worst moments of the show to build a case that she was crazy. Really goes to show how bad season 6 was.
Season 6 of BtVS was just unhinged. I don't know why, I don't know if maybe something went wrong behind the scenes? But for whatever reason, all of the ducks lined up at once... and created an entire season that was just totally over the edge.
I put a lot of it on Firefly. In 2001 when season 6 and Angel season 3 were airing simultaneously, Joss was writing, casting and prepping Firefly for airing in the fall of 2002. He said on one of the DVD sets he was getting stretched thin and turned more show running responsibility to Marti Noxon. This is where things, IMHO, went off the rails.
__________________
There's an old Earth saying Captain. A phrase of great power and wisdom, and consolation to the soul in time of need...

Allons-y!
EnderAKH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2014, 09:09 PM   #42
gblews
Rear Admiral
 
gblews's Avatar
 
Location: So. Cal.
View gblews's Twitter Profile
Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

EnderAKH wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
It's amazing how you can use some of the worst moments of the show to build a case that she was crazy. Really goes to show how bad season 6 was.
Season 6 of BtVS was just unhinged. I don't know why, I don't know if maybe something went wrong behind the scenes? But for whatever reason, all of the ducks lined up at once... and created an entire season that was just totally over the edge.
I put a lot of it on Firefly. In 2001 when season 6 and Angel season 3 were airing simultaneously, Joss was writing, casting and prepping Firefly for airing in the fall of 2002. He said on one of the DVD sets he was getting stretched thin and turned more show running responsibility to Marti Noxon. This is where things, IMHO, went off the rails.
I looked at season 6, not as inferior to what came before, but simply different. They broke the seasonal Big Bad mold and had Buffy deal with some problems that were less than the "end of the world" variety of the prior 5 seasons. I loved what happend with Willow. Very interesting. And season 6 presented "Once More With Feeling" which to me, made the entire season worthwhile regardless.

But I did binge the series on Netflix last year and that does sometimes make a difference in the way a show is perceived. I loved season 7 too, and had no problem wiht the finale.
__________________
Duckman: I'll never forget the last thing my father said to me...
Cornfed: "Careful son, I don't think the safety's on"?
Duckman: BEFORE THAT!!!

Last edited by gblews; January 27 2014 at 10:59 PM.
gblews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2014, 10:41 PM   #43
Lance
Commodore
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

EnderAKH wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
It's amazing how you can use some of the worst moments of the show to build a case that she was crazy. Really goes to show how bad season 6 was.
Season 6 of BtVS was just unhinged. I don't know why, I don't know if maybe something went wrong behind the scenes? But for whatever reason, all of the ducks lined up at once... and created an entire season that was just totally over the edge.
I put a lot of it on Firefly. In 2001 when season 6 and Angel season 3 were airing simultaneously, Joss was writing, casting and prepping Firefly for airing in the fall of 2002. He said on one of the DVD sets he was getting stretched thin and turned more show running responsibility to Marti Noxon. This is where things, IMHO, went off the rails.
Interesting. Yeah, I definitely can see how that would result in such a stylistic shift in season six, if Joss was busy elsewhere.

Season six is just so... disjointed. The tone of the series was pretty much consistent (if still escalating somewhat) for 5 years, but it goes over a cliff in season six. Maybe that was inevitable no matter who was in charge though? "Once More, With Feeling" is maybe the only episode of season six which even feels like BtVS to me these days.

The irony is that I got hooked on season five during a re-run of the episodes back-to-back on a sattelite TV channel, and only retrospectively went back and watched seasons 1-4 afterwards. So season six was really the first one I watched 'new' after getting into the show.

I used to absolutely love the original movie, so while I knew BtVS was a show I reacted kinda negatively against it for being 'different', until those re-runs of season five got me hooked on it. Seems silly to think about it now.
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28 2014, 12:19 AM   #44
Holdfast
Procul, O procul este profani!
 
Holdfast's Avatar
 
Location: 17 Cherry Tree Lane
Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

Interesting topic.

I thought Buffy was a far better show than any of the other Whedon projects, especially in hindsight, largely because its central conceit was the most interesting. Essentially Buffy's life represents a failure to really grow from a relatively average young teenager into a well-rounded normal human being. The device used in the show to achieve this is the pressure of expectations from her role as the Slayer, but of course you could - and the show frequently did - easily substitute any real-life pressure for that role. Instead of thriving, Buffy shrivels in on herself and becomes increasingly fatalistic through the constant abuse and disappointmet. Sure, there are some better times where she approaches some degree of normal human interaction & relationships, but most of the time they veer from one extreme to the other, and are frequently very broken, with painful consequences. The pace accelerates after she graduates High School; it was something of a protective social factor around her.

The other characters are less interesting, with their various problems being much more obvious/trite, but Buffy herself is certainly a sad tale for most of the second half of the series. Only the finale suggests a more hopeful future, but one suspects this won't last.

I look forward to seeing whether the OP follows up this thread with more in a similar vein.
Holdfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28 2014, 01:15 AM   #45
propita
Rear Admiral
 
Location: fresno, ca, us
Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

I thought Buffy’s feelings on the subject were made evident in “Once More With Feeling,” particularly in her song “Going Through the Motions.”

Yeah, I bought the soundtrack. Yeah, I’ve listened to it a lot.
propita is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:24 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.