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Old January 17 2014, 10:22 AM   #16
RoJoHen
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Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

I will agree that when you have repeat viewings of the show, you realize how truly unhappy Buffy was by the end. I actually love Season 6 because of how dark it got, and I loved how they dealt with Buffy's return from Heaven...the problem with Season 7, however, is that she never gets better. It starts on lighter terms with the return to the high school setting, but by the end she is just as exhausted, beaten down, and depressed as she was before.

And honestly, maybe it's not a "problem" at all...maybe that's exactly how her character should have evolved given her circumstances. It's just sad, though, because after all she's done, after all she's sacrificed to save the world, doesn't she deserve some happiness?
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Old January 17 2014, 10:41 AM   #17
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Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

S6 & S7 have a few great EPs between them but I would have been okay if the series ended in S5.

They seemed to drag Buffy through the mud a bit in S6 & 7 and I didn't care for it.

Buffy does deserve happiness.
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Old January 17 2014, 10:58 AM   #18
Timelord Victorious
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Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

I think she did overcome her mental scars when she decided to not play after the rules of ancient dead magic men anymore and got the scythe. It was weakly disguised symbolism, but it worked.
And she didn't only get her own power back, she made sure the same goes for all her successors.
She still had to face a lot at that point, and it left a certain bitterness, but once she beaten her demons (and destroyed Sunnydale, there is the symbolism again) she actually had closure.
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Old January 17 2014, 11:08 AM   #19
TayLaLaLa
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Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

Another thing about the writing of the character, how many time have they tried to KILL her?

Buffy died at the age of sixteen after being bitten and drowned by the Master.[35] This was a clinical death, in which the heart stops beating, but there is still brain activity. People who experience clinical deaths have often been revived. This death activated Kendra Young as the Slayer.[23]

Buffy's second death occurred when she was twenty years old, when she sacrificed herself to save Dawn and the world by hurling herself off a tower and using her own body to close a mystical portal. She was buried in a Sunnydale cemetery,[80] where her body rested for 147 days until Willow, Xander, Tara, and Anya resurrected her.[82]

When Buffy was shot by Warren Mears, she briefly flatlined in the hospital before being saved by Willow, who removed the bullet via telekinesis. It is never acknowledged by Buffy or anyone else whether this constituted a third death.[90] Buffy's nightmare came true when she was turned into a vampire by the Master because a comatose Billy Palmer was inadvertently merging the line between reality and dreams; this death was quickly reversed when Billy woke up.[34] An alternate version of Buffy also died at the hands of the Master, who snapped her neck, but this timeline was erased by the alternate Giles.[200]

http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Buffy_Summers
Seriously. WTF!
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Old January 17 2014, 03:36 PM   #20
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Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

Every Slayer has died violently for the 10,000 years they've been around, with them being Slayer for up to 9 years at most. It's kind of the point of the whole show that there are things out there trying to kill her every day.
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Old January 17 2014, 08:51 PM   #21
TayLaLaLa
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Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

I know.

I am just saying they bring her back and she dies again, they kill her in alternate universes. She is The Slayer, not Kenny from South Park.

I posted the thing about her deaths in fun. I am sorry.
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Old January 17 2014, 09:32 PM   #22
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Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

Apple Goblin wrote: View Post
Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
Apple Goblin, are you suggesting that someone who is mentally ill cannot also be a hero? You consider mental illness to be "evil"?
I'm not saying that. Her constant heroics, however, might actually be adding to her already serious psychological damage.

Buffy NEEDS help. No wonder she was so intimidated by Faith, who acts out her pain in various inappropriate ways. Buffy needs helps but her friends and family never get it for her. When was the last time you saw Buffy smile a genuine smile that wasn't laced with irony? Why are the lights in her eyes dimmed? Why doesn't she seem to fit in anywhere she goes? She's a bigger outcast than Willow because at least Willow has her Wicca friends and narcissistic tendencies. Buffy's deep depression makes me uneasy just to think of it.
Obviously Buffy needed help. That episode in season 6, I think, where she had that long psychoanalysis by that vamp gave us a bit of just how much she could have used a mental healh professional. But considering that she had this "calling" thrust upon her and had to go about saving the world in secret, it would have been very unlrealistic to show her just pleased as punch about everything all the time. If she was, people would be complaining because here's this teenager with all this responsibility and she's happy all the time.

And as others have pointed out, Buffy's reaction to her plight is part of what made the show so compelling.

Hey, do Oz next: "Support characters who are autistic and don't know it". You're welcome.
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Old January 18 2014, 05:24 AM   #23
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Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

Sure Buffy went through a lot of shit on the show, and it did have an effect on her, but I don't think it was anywhere near as extreme as the OP makes it sound.
Also it's a little too easy to use Season 6 as a part of this, since the whole point of her arc for the early part of the season is the fact that she was having trouble dealing with being back on Earth.
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Old January 18 2014, 06:53 AM   #24
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Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
It's amazing how you can use some of the worst moments of the show to build a case that she was crazy. Really goes to show how bad season 6 was.
Season 6 was good - I'd call it dead middle at worst in ranking the seasons, probably tied for third with S2. It was Season 7 (the back half) that was just ugh.

Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
I think she did overcome her mental scars when she decided to not play after the rules of ancient dead magic men anymore and got the scythe. It was weakly disguised symbolism, but it worked.
"Scythe." Alleged Scythe you mean. I remember reading about it before and thinking how awesome it was gonna be to see Buffy going all Grim Reaper, and then it's just a damned axe. A pretty sweet axe, all choppy and the stake-end is a nice touch, but in no way a scythe. /rant

Damn if that whole subplot didn't come right the fuck out of nowhere. And first introducing the Ancient Controlling Magic Men right on the heels of one of Buffy's worst moments, gahhh... such a messy end for the show.
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Old January 18 2014, 10:57 AM   #25
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Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

gblews wrote: View Post

Hey, do Oz next: "Support characters who are autistic and don't know it". You're welcome.
Oz was actually a lot more perceptive and self-aware than his homicidal girlfriend.
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Old January 18 2014, 01:29 PM   #26
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Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

One of the core concepts of the show is that Buffy is someone who had an inhuman amount of responsibility dropped on her shoulders at a very young age, so it would be pretty poor writing to not show the toll that took on her over the years. She reaches her lowest point in Season 6 (a season which I love, but I seem to enjoy watching my heroes get their asses kicked. It's one of the reasons why "Empire" is my favorite SW movie), but she comes out the other side scarred but unbroken. I think it actually shows a tremendous amount of strength that she came through it as well as she did.
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Old January 18 2014, 03:52 PM   #27
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Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

Kestrel wrote: View Post
Damn if that whole subplot didn't come right the fuck out of nowhere. And first introducing the Ancient Controlling Magic Men right on the heels of one of Buffy's worst moments, gahhh... such a messy end for the show.
The Shadow Men where alluded to in season 2 when Giles put Buffy through the de-powering test. The serum is native to the lands of ancient Sumer where the Slayer was created.

They were hinted at again with the First Slayer in seasons 4 and 5 with shadows moving around behind the Slayer and mentions from Giles to the creators of the line.

I admit they did a poor job because they were waiting for a better time to show them, then slapped them right in with season 7 in one go.

The only ass pull was the female counterpart community and the Scythe (which Buffy does swing like one when she remembers) that was 'always meant to be there'.
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Old January 18 2014, 09:23 PM   #28
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Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

Ok, fair point about the vague foreshadowing (heh) of the Shadow Men. Like you said though, poorly handled proper introduction - and we're supposed to cheer Buffy overcoming them right after one of her most callous, heartless General Buffy moments when she needed a punch to the face.

I'd actually forgotten about the "Watcher Watchers" women entirely - they get, what... one scene in the penultimate episode, or maybe finale?
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Old January 18 2014, 10:12 PM   #29
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Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

Kestrel wrote: View Post
Ok, fair point about the vague foreshadowing (heh) of the Shadow Men. Like you said though, poorly handled proper introduction - and we're supposed to cheer Buffy overcoming them right after one of her most callous, heartless General Buffy moments when she needed a punch to the face.

I'd actually forgotten about the "Watcher Watchers" women entirely - they get, what... one scene in the penultimate episode, or maybe finale?
One scene, at the end of the second to last episode, for ~1.5 minutes, then dies.

Yeah the finale was a mess of a thing.
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Old January 18 2014, 11:28 PM   #30
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Re: Mentally Ill Protagonists #1 - Buffy Summers

The axe/scythe and the Shadow Men were all from the Fray comic.
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