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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old January 26 2014, 04:20 PM   #136
Isolinear
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Re: Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

Irishman wrote: View Post
Two things: First - people on the internet love to complain.

Second - Many longterm Trek fans who grew up with series x or series y tend to view that series as "their" Trek. It's theirs, and they take personal ownership of it. And from that point onward, through the other series and movies, they cast a keen eye on ways that these other Treks stray from what it was about "their" Trek that they loved so much. Take, for example, the "old-timers" or TOS fans. For them, Trek stopped either at the end of the third season of TOS, or if they're feeling generous, the animated series (because it contained many of the same creative team and actors as TOS).

And every Trek series has fans like this, and boy, are they ever vocal.

At the root of it, it's the difference between a fan's expectations of what a Trek series or movie would look like, and what the studios have produced. The greater those vary, the more complaining you hear. It's not a hate of Trek. It's a love of the "idea" of Trek that the fan has built in his/her mind.

I hope that helps.
Excellent analysis counselor!

Personally, I don't hate any Star Trek. I just have different levels of disdain.

- DS9's Profit and Lace: Embarrassed "Who approved this anti-woman crap?"
- VOY's Fury: Angry. "They ruined Kes! What were they thinking?"
- ENT's TATV: Bewildered. "What was the... point of Trip's crappy death in this story? I don't get it...
- JJ's movies: Annoyed. This is Star Wars!!! Where's my Trek movie dammit? I'd rather watch Galaxy Quest, a much better Star Trek tribute.

Doesn't mean I hate them and will never ever watch them again! (although Profit and Lace is painful)
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Old January 27 2014, 02:56 PM   #137
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Re: Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Every fandom has fans who are resentful of the new material in favor of the "good old days." In some cases, it's considered normal fare to hate new product when it's first aired and released and continue hating it until five years has passed, then it gets re-watched and decided it's not as bad as everyone made it out to be and hella lot better than the current crap being churned out.

It's just a thing. Everyone has their things.
No kidding. If the OP thinks Trek fans are bad,he should go on over to MMORPG.COM and look at all the posters who hate the current MMOs. That place is a rolling cesspool of hate.
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Old January 27 2014, 03:49 PM   #138
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Re: Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
I could be convinced FTL exists a lot more easily than I could be convinced telepathy exists.
"Faster than light" is about as realistic as "slower than stopped."
I agree. But for FTL to be possible our current understanding of the universe would have to be wrong. For telepathy to exist our thoughts would have to create magic particles that other minds could pick up with identical understanding. That or 'Time, space and thought are not separate things' and Wesley is Neo.

A general rule of the Internet is, if you think people are hateful on the forum you're posting on, there are other forums that are far worse. Like, I've been to a craft beer forum where Budweiser gets hated on with the vitriol of five TATVs combined.
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Old January 29 2014, 04:23 AM   #139
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Re: Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

I don't hate Star Trek. I wouldn't own all the various shows and movies on DVD if I did, now, would I?

There are some episodes I don't like, and some which just don't work at all, but I feel there's enough good in the ST saga to outweigh the bad. I am grateful to the JJ Abrams movies for reigniting the public interest in Star Trek. Do I have some issues with them? Yes, but I still enjoy them. Just like there were problems with Berman era Trek. I enjoy Voyager and Enterprise for what they are, despite the well-documented flaws.
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Old January 29 2014, 05:29 AM   #140
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Re: Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

[QUOTE=Isolinear;9169975]
Irishman wrote: View Post

- JJ's movies: Annoyed. This is Star Wars!!! Where's my Trek movie dammit? I'd rather watch Galaxy Quest, a much better Star Trek tribute.
Well said!

I'd say rather than being Star Wars they are more like comic books.

That is, comic books that throw out 40 years of continuity....

Fans love to complain. The best is when they complain about what they perceive to be in the show's creators' minds - they complain about it as if they KNOW FOR SURE and they disagree.

It's a bit like going to a hockey game. 90% of the fans in the arena think they can do a better job than the coach. Good luck with that.

-Jason
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Old January 29 2014, 09:42 PM   #141
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

I certainly couldn't do a better job than JJ Abrams, but other writers and directors sure could. Of course, there are a lot more that would do a worse job than him than a better one. Considering what kind of directors they tapped for the TNG movies, Abrams is a huge improvement. His only problem is that Star Trek is supposed to be a heady show about exploration and diplomacy and Abrams wants to show things going boom.

Fortunately, Star Wars is supposed to be about stuff going boom.

Let me rephrase what I earlier said about FTL travel and telepathy. I don't think either are possible. But suppose you saw two headlines, and were told one of them was real and one of them was fake. The first one read: "Scientists prove faster than light travel possible". The second one read: "Telepathy proven to exist in controlled study". I would think the first one was the real one.
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Old January 29 2014, 10:56 PM   #142
M'Sharak
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Re: Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

milojthatch wrote: View Post
It's an interesting question, why are Trekkies so full of hate of (fill in the blank) Star Trek film or show? And I ask this question knowing full well I'm guilty of this ever since JJ-Trek came on the scene, but why are we all so full of hate?
I'm not full of hate. But then again, I don't identify as a Trekkie or Trekker (or Trekkist, or whatever,) so maybe this isn't really addressed to me. I just enjoy the shows - all of the live-action ones, anyway, and some of the movies. I don't hate the animated series or the other movies, but neither am I particularly interested in watching them again, nor do I spend much time talking about them or reading other people's conversations about them.

milojthatch wrote: View Post
Seriously, you look at any of the boards just on this forum, and it's amazing how many of them are focused on what the various fans hate ... about Star Trek.
Know what I do? I just don't read those. Not interesting.

milojthatch wrote: View Post
I see threads and posts about how much some people hates Enterprise or Star Trek V or even a behind the scenes talent like Rick Berman. Just about every show and film and person connected to Trek are dogged on, with maybe a stronger focus on 1990's Trek and onward.
I don't read those, either. Hate threads are usually pretty dull, and threads dogging on shows, films and/or people just get repetitive. Seriously, why bother?

milojthatch wrote: View Post
<snip>

So my question to the fans on this board is, why? Why are we so vocal about what we hate... about Star Trek?
Not all of us are. It's just a TV show, after all - it's entertainment. If a thing is not enjoyable and is not essential, then simply find something else to do with one's time. There's more to all of this than Star Trek one might not enjoy.
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Old January 29 2014, 11:23 PM   #143
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Re: Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
His only problem is that Star Trek is supposed to be a heady show about exploration and diplomacy and Abrams wants to show things going boom.
You mean like all of the exploration and diplomacy in TWOK, SFS, TVH? How about all of the times in TNG when the Enterprise "explored" all of the way back to Earth?
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Old January 29 2014, 11:35 PM   #144
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Re: Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

TNG was about diplomacy. TOS was about adventures in space - many of which ended in fighting.
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Old January 30 2014, 10:39 PM   #145
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Re: Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

The bitching and complaining about various forms of Trek don't bother me. JJ Abrams and Rick Berman both have a lot of money and mean posts about their movies and shows aren't going to hurt them.

What does bother me are the spiteful attacks on other fans for liking a particular show/movie/novel etc. During the heyday of Enterprise it really got out of hand - not only were they hating on the show itself, but they'd attack anyone who voiced an appreciation for the show as some sort of traitor to Star Trek who was hurting the franchise.
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Old January 31 2014, 01:55 AM   #146
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
TNG was about diplomacy. TOS was about adventures in space - many of which ended in fighting.
Even the ones that ended in fighting generally expressed a strong preference for a nonviolent solution. One episode took a horror movie premise and it turned out the killer monster had a legitimate motive which the heroes had to show empathy to discover and then brokered peaceful coexistence.

DS9's being about war worked because it took all the explorers, diplomats and scientists and thrust them into a situation where they had to question their moral certainty and defend themselves in order to survive, and even it ended in convincing the attackers to call back their final attack and then a peace treaty.

And TWOK was an addition to an established series, the two Abrams films are a new basis of a series. Them being all about 'Killem before dey killus!' sets much more of a precedent than TWOK, which by the way, was the consequence of an act of mercy.
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Old January 31 2014, 06:28 AM   #147
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Re: Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
TNG was about diplomacy. TOS was about adventures in space - many of which ended in fighting.
LOL, TNG was about prissy preachifying and a take on the Prime Directive that was so restrictive that it logically entailed morally repugnant sins of omission (Oh well, we'll just let this race die. Prime Directive, you know).

TNG was also smug. Humans had now "arrived" and were the perfected utopian people Roddenberry wanted. TOS was populated by people with flaws. It was self-conscious of the moral limitations of humans. TOS didn't brag about humanity's perfection, but simply held out the hope that one day we might be worthy to sit at the table with Organians and Metrons. In TNG, on the other hand, Picard lectures Q, non-ironically(!), with Shakespeare's "What a piece of work is man"!

TOS was about diplomacy. In Mirror Mirror, for example, Kirk negotiates for Dilithium from the Halkans, but notes that the Federation would not take the crystals by force. And before they beam back to their universe, Kirk does his best to convince goatee Spock that "in every revolution there is one man with a vision!" to attempt to get him to consider attempting to changes the evil empire.
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Old January 31 2014, 07:06 PM   #148
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Re: Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

Notice that that in almost every TNG movie though, there is a big ship to ship fight scene at the end.

First Contact didn't have one in the end, because they showed one in the beginning.


It was as if TNG trek knew they had to provide some type of action but was stuck into the same format, again and again.

One reason why I wish they did a Dominion War style movie, because the action would be built in.

I'm not as big a fan of the NU Trek, but I credit Abrams with helping to keep Star Trek mainstream.

And I think Nu Trek is better than the last two TNG movies.

The hyperactive action is what I'm not into. And I love action.
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Old February 1 2014, 03:23 AM   #149
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

YARN wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
TNG was about diplomacy. TOS was about adventures in space - many of which ended in fighting.
LOL, TNG was about prissy preachifying and a take on the Prime Directive that was so restrictive that it logically entailed morally repugnant sins of omission (Oh well, we'll just let this race die. Prime Directive, you know).

TNG was also smug. Humans had now "arrived" and were the perfected utopian people Roddenberry wanted. TOS was populated by people with flaws. It was self-conscious of the moral limitations of humans. TOS didn't brag about humanity's perfection, but simply held out the hope that one day we might be worthy to sit at the table with Organians and Metrons. In TNG, on the other hand, Picard lectures Q, non-ironically(!), with Shakespeare's "What a piece of work is man"!

TOS was about diplomacy. In Mirror Mirror, for example, Kirk negotiates for Dilithium from the Halkans, but notes that the Federation would not take the crystals by force. And before they beam back to their universe, Kirk does his best to convince goatee Spock that "in every revolution there is one man with a vision!" to attempt to get him to consider attempting to changes the evil empire.
Actually I find the people who insist religiously that the flaws of humanity are a natural state that we should embrace and just follow our personal selfish needs are more smug about it than TNG ever is outside a handful of episodes, especially if you ignore season 1.
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Old February 1 2014, 07:55 AM   #150
J. Allen
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Re: Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
I certainly couldn't do a better job than JJ Abrams, but other writers and directors sure could. Of course, there are a lot more that would do a worse job than him than a better one. Considering what kind of directors they tapped for the TNG movies, Abrams is a huge improvement. His only problem is that Star Trek is supposed to be a heady show about exploration and diplomacy and Abrams wants to show things going boom.

Fortunately, Star Wars is supposed to be about stuff going boom.

Let me rephrase what I earlier said about FTL travel and telepathy. I don't think either are possible. But suppose you saw two headlines, and were told one of them was real and one of them was fake. The first one read: "Scientists prove faster than light travel possible". The second one read: "Telepathy proven to exist in controlled study". I would think the first one was the real one.
Maybe you'll get that heady exploration for the third film. There's a huge build up for the whole 5 year mission, and I think it will payoff in the third film.

At the same time, none of the past pre-JJ Star Trek movies have really dug into the sense of exploration and wonder, save for The Motion Picture. Well, okay, Generations tried.
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