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View Poll Results: Is the "Yesterday's Enterprise" alternate universe believable?
The alternate universe is believable. 24 82.76%
The alternate universe is not believable. 5 17.24%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 22 2014, 06:00 PM   #1
jmampilly
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Yesterday's Enterprise Alternate Universe

The alternate universe created by a wormhole in Yesterday's Enterprise, in which the Federation had been at war with the Klingons for 20 years, is an interesting one. However, I find it hard to believe, because it seems like all canonical evidence outside of said episode would indicate a Federation victory...

What do you guys think? Is the alternate universe believable, or can it only be explained through such radical events as a surprise attack early on that devastated the Federation?
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Old January 22 2014, 06:18 PM   #2
F. King Daniel
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Alternate Universe

STVI seemed to completely ignore and undermine YE's story, presenting a Klingon/human peace decades earlier than what "Yesterday's Enterprise" established. The Voyager episode "Flashback" tried to fix it by calling STVI the first Klingon/Federation treaty, but it's still a mess trying to reconcile an essentially defeated Empire ("Quite frankly, Mr. President, we can clean their chronometers.") with one utterly dominating the Federation. Perhaps in that AU they found some new WMD with which they tipped the balance?
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Old January 22 2014, 07:07 PM   #3
Sran
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Alternate Universe

It's also possible that the events of The Undiscovered Country are themselves indicative of an alternate reality that came about as a result of the events of "Yesterday's
Enterprise." Please allow me to explain.

We know that the deterioration of the peace treaty between the Klingon Empire and the Federation happened because of the alleged inability of the Enterprise-C to defend Narendra III. This timeline was avoided- for lack of a better term- when the Enterprise-C returned from the future and prevented the outpost's destruction by Romulan ships. Similar to the events of "Yesteryear," it would seem that the events of "Yesterday's Enterprise" were in fact necessary in maintaining (restoring?) the history that we're familiar with.

But suppose that didn't happen.

What if an agency such as the Temporal Integrity Commission was monitoring the events in question and decided to ensure a lasting peace between the Federation and the Klingon Empire (and an avoidance of a war that would cripple the Federation and drive it to the brink of surrender) by orchestrating the explosion of Praxis- a moon known to be unstable due to poor safety precautions taken by the miners who used it (as pointed out by Spock)- but making it appear to be an accident, thus forcing Chancellor Gorkon's hand?

The TIC's intervention would make peace between Earth and Qo'nos possible at an earlier time, thus avoiding the Narendra III incident altogether. The incident is never mentioned following the events of "Redemption," which aired before TUC was released. Commander Sela appears in "Unification," which also airs before the film's release. Thus, it could be argued that TUC's events constitute an entirely different reality due to the TIC's involvement.

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Old January 22 2014, 07:08 PM   #4
Ethros
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Alternate Universe

I always think its funny how it does kinda devalue STVI quite a lot 'continuity wise.'
As the 2293 Khitomer Accords or no, relations would have broken down leading to war either way without the Narenda III incident.


King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
The Voyager episode "Flashback" tried to fix it by calling STVI the first Klingon/Federation treaty, but it's still a mess trying to reconcile an essentially defeated Empire
There's a line in Insurrection too where they say the use of subspace weapons were banned in "the Second Khitomer Accords" so I guess there was more than one over the years.



EDIT: Hey I never knew the planet in ENT: Judgment was meant to be Narenda III
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Narendra_III
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Old January 22 2014, 08:31 PM   #5
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Alternate Universe

I love these complicated off-script explanations for continuity problems between series.

The simplest explanation is that the peace established in Star Trek VI was not a very stable one. Maybe the chancellor at the time was in favor of it but Km'Pec thought it was stupid and he's the one who wanted to invade the Federation, and that was either politically advantageous or not depending on the Ent-C defending that outpost. So the Klingons in that timeline allocated their resources for a major war against the Federation, perhaps being less aggressive on other fronts to be able to do so.

But it doesn't need to be more complicated than 'The scripts contradict each other', particularly meddling time travelers have no reason to be further involved than they already are.
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Old January 22 2014, 10:28 PM   #6
-Brett-
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Alternate Universe

Believable is a relative term.

If that strictly refers to the Klingon Empire potentially defeating the Federation, sure, I could believe that.

50 years between The Undiscovered Country and Narendra III is more than enough time for the empire to rebuild from Praxis and for it's relationship with the Federation to deteriorate to the brink of war again.
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Old January 23 2014, 12:28 AM   #7
Armored Saint
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Alternate Universe

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
STVI seemed to completely ignore and undermine YE's story, presenting a Klingon/human peace decades earlier than what "Yesterday's Enterprise" established.
No, in TNG, the Federation and the Klingon Empire are allied, not simply at peace.

In TOS, the Organians impose a peace treaty to them, but they stay enemies. So, it's not a real peace. During STIII, they are trying to negociate for peace, a real one in this case, not something imposed by a third party.

In STVI, they're establishing peace and a formal partnership. It's approximately fifty years before the Narendra III events. During this gap, they had time to find an unexpected solution to save the Qo'noS atmosphere. It was also enough time to allowed the deterioration of this relationship.

We learn in TNG that the Klingon regime is not very stable. After the resolving of Praxis disaster, a radical Chancellor could have decided to almost forget the Khitomer treaty.
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Old January 23 2014, 02:01 AM   #8
Lance
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Alternate Universe

The episode Aquiel (TNG, sixth season) established that as little as within a decade or so before the events of TNG, there were still skirmishes between Klingons and Starfleet.

This is even in the 'peaceful' version of the 24th century.

Even in the TNG/DS9 era, it's an uneasy alliance... not an easy thing for either side... in Heart Of Glory Riker and his away team react with suspicion of the three Klingons, while later Klingon stories would see the Empire being openly scathing of humans (Gowron virtually dismisses Picard's legitimacy as Arbiter Of Succession, until he figures out a way he can make it an advantage of course ).

So, the potential for conflict was always there... even after the so-called "peace accords" established in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.

My suspicion is that in the Yesterday's Enterprise universe, the gradual mothballing of the fleet after the Khitomer accords resulted in Starfleet being unprepared for a Klingon assault. The Federation was left impotent after the events of STVI. Klingon ships are more seat-of-your-pants in their construction anyway, so even if the Klingons had to similarly "disarm" after STVI, they could probably have built up a credible fleet again much faster than Starfleet. Chances are good that by the time the alternative Federation actually realized they were at war with the Klingons again, and scrambled to put ships into action, they had been (metaphorically) caught with their pants down, and struggled to play catch up. No doubt there was a while where diplomatic solutions were sought as well, which probably gave the Klingons even more chances to stockpile a battle fleet on the sly.

In short: the Starfleet didn't know what him 'em.
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Old January 23 2014, 06:09 AM   #9
dub
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Alternate Universe

I used to get so excited when that episode would come on in re-runs because I just LOVED the Enterprise C, I thought the whole thing with Yar was awesome, Guinan sensing things not being right, the alternate D set and uniforms...I just loved the whole episode. Whether things matched up exactly with TUC? That never once crossed my mind. And now that you mention it, I couldn't care less.
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Old January 23 2014, 06:20 AM   #10
Lance
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Alternate Universe

To be completely fair... Yesterday's Enterprise was first by a couple of years.

It was the producers of TUC who ignored the events of the episode. Fair do's if they want to, but YE established itself first.

Although if we want to reconcile it, we might assume that it took quite a while (and a few different encounters) before peace -- or an uneasy alliance, at least -- became solidified. Possibly Narendra III was simply the incident that made it real for the Klingons?

There's an irony is the isolationist Romulans, who presumably hoped to play both sides against each other concerning Narendra III (and probably did in the alt timeline), instead serving to bring the Klingons and the Feds finally to an accord with each other.
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Old January 23 2014, 09:15 AM   #11
Ethros
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Alternate Universe

This thread makes me wanna dig out the Lost Era novel Star Trek: The Art of the Impossible, which covers a lot of this ground (and is also my favourite Trek book tbh)
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Old January 23 2014, 12:42 PM   #12
Nightdiamond
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Alternate Universe

That is a hard to explain contradiction. But the movie had its own internal contradiction.

The Klingons also wanted to attack first and claimed they could 'take by whole' instead of sharing.

That sounded like they believed they could win too.

One theory I have --

The Klingons already invested in a huge military that lasted long enough to outfight the Federation in a 20 year war.

They've been probably building it for decades--it looks like they don't waste any ships.
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Old January 23 2014, 04:33 PM   #13
Ensign_Redshirt
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Alternate Universe

I always think its funny how it does kinda devalue STVI quite a lot 'continuity wise.'
As the 2293 Khitomer Accords or no, relations would have broken down leading to war either way without the Narenda III incident.
The League of Nations didn't manage to prevent World War II,
yet forming the League is still considered an important historical event. Because conceptually, it did pave the way for the UN later on.
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Old January 23 2014, 04:34 PM   #14
USS Excelsior
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Alternate Universe

In Flashback it was said that the Praxis destruction would ultimately lead to the first treaty. TUC established a cease in hostilities.

Also that 2nd Season episode when Picard was in the shuttle with Wesley it was suggested that they were still enemies with the Klingons when he graduated from the Academy.
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Old January 23 2014, 05:00 PM   #15
E-DUB
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise Alternate Universe

Yes, it's believable. An early pre-emptive strike, Pearl Harbor style, at a crucial Federation facility, might have put the Feds on the defensive from the beginning. Then, to borrow a Risk metaphor, the Klingons rolled a lot of sixes.
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