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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old January 16 2014, 02:08 PM   #1
uniderth
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Did Spock undergo Pon Farr prior to Amok Time?

Was Spock's Pon Farr in Amok Time his first time experiencing it?

The events in Amok Time seem to indicate it was Spock's first time experiencing it, especially if we consider Vulcans to be monogamous. We are told that Vulcan's go through it every seven years of their adult life.

So does Vulcan adulthood begin at age 36(Spock's age in Amok Time)?

In the Search for Spock he goes through Pon Farr with Saavik. The Spock that does this is credited as "Spock...Age 17". This could indicate that adulthood begins much earlier.

If we take Spock's age in Amok Time and start subtracting 7 years we get:

36 -7 = 29
29 - 7 = 22
22 - 7 = 15

That means Spock went through Pon Farr at the ages of 36, 29, 22, and 15. That's three times, prior to Amok Time.

I think this is actually the most likely. But then what happens to Spock and T'pring and their less than a marriage and more than a betrothal?
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Old January 16 2014, 04:14 PM   #2
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Re: Did Spock undergo Pon Farr prior to Amok Time?

TSFS teenage Spock had different environmental factors than regular Spock. Its a nature vs nurture debate. Because he aged to a teenager in such a short period of time maybe pon farr came early.
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Old January 16 2014, 05:51 PM   #3
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Re: Did Spock undergo Pon Farr prior to Amok Time?

Listen to the dialogue. In "Amok Time." Spock says he hoped he would be spared "this." That sounds like he had not experienced pon farr before and had hoped it would stay that way.
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Old January 16 2014, 06:12 PM   #4
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Re: Did Spock undergo Pon Farr prior to Amok Time?

Its entirely possible that Spock's mixed heritage caused a delay that other Vulcans wouldn't have had to deal with, so the "adult life" of a full-blooded Vulcan male could start sooner than mid-thirties.

As for teenage Spock havin' pon farr on Genesis, that can be chalked up to special circumstances unique to Spock, as well.
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Old January 16 2014, 06:32 PM   #5
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Re: Did Spock undergo Pon Farr prior to Amok Time?

Never considered this before..

I like Warped9 and od0_ital response though.
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Old January 16 2014, 06:50 PM   #6
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Re: Did Spock undergo Pon Farr prior to Amok Time?

The "every seven years" thing originated in The Cloud Minders. That seems ridiculously specific for a biological function. Like everyone is on the same timer.
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Old January 16 2014, 07:00 PM   #7
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Re: Did Spock undergo Pon Farr prior to Amok Time?

Every seven Earth years (for sake of the audience)? Vulcan years (for sake of specificity)? Ardanan years (for Droxine's sake)? Maybe it's just an average?
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Old January 16 2014, 07:11 PM   #8
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Re: Did Spock undergo Pon Farr prior to Amok Time?

od0_ital wrote: View Post
Its entirely possible that Spock's mixed heritage caused a delay that other Vulcans wouldn't have had to deal with, so the "adult life" of a full-blooded Vulcan male could start sooner than mid-thirties.

As for teenage Spock havin' pon farr on Genesis, that can be chalked up to special circumstances unique to Spock, as well.
I think you're dead-on with this. Its easy to refer to Spock as a Vulcan, but it has to be remembered that -while he chooses the Vulcan culture over the Human- his body is an amalgamation of the two species. And, therefore, he will either experience or miss aspects of the biological events of both.

BTW, in which ep is he first identified as being half-Human?
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Old January 16 2014, 07:14 PM   #9
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Re: Did Spock undergo Pon Farr prior to Amok Time?

Revanche wrote: View Post
od0_ital wrote: View Post
Its entirely possible that Spock's mixed heritage caused a delay that other Vulcans wouldn't have had to deal with, so the "adult life" of a full-blooded Vulcan male could start sooner than mid-thirties.

As for teenage Spock havin' pon farr on Genesis, that can be chalked up to special circumstances unique to Spock, as well.
I think you're dead-on with this. Its easy to refer to Spock as a Vulcan, but it has to be remembered that -while he chooses the Vulcan culture over the Human- his body is an amalgamation of the two species. And, therefore, he will either experience or miss aspects of the biological events of both.

BTW, in which ep is he first identified as being half-Human?
It's not quite directly stated in the second pilot, Where No Man Has Gone Before:

KIRK: Have I ever mentioned you play a very irritating game of chess, Mister Spock?
SPOCK: Irritating? Ah, yes. One of your Earth emotions.
KIRK: Certain you don't know what irritation is?
SPOCK: The fact one of my ancestors married a human female
KIRK: Terrible having bad blood like that.
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Old January 16 2014, 07:28 PM   #10
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Re: Did Spock undergo Pon Farr prior to Amok Time?

Revanche wrote: View Post
BTW, in which ep is he first identified as being half-Human?
Technically, in an unspecific manner, in WNMHGB. More specifically it's mentioned in "The Corbomite Maneuver."
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Old January 16 2014, 08:49 PM   #11
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Re: Did Spock undergo Pon Farr prior to Amok Time?

Very early on, then.

Thanks, both.
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Old January 16 2014, 09:11 PM   #12
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Re: Did Spock undergo Pon Farr prior to Amok Time?

I figure Spock's ponfarr in TSFS like this. First I assume (there's that word) that both male and female Vulcan have a version of ponfarr. TWoK, TSFS and TVH all take place in close order. Khan was marooned in the first season of TOS, Amok Tme was in the second season.

Khan was on ceti alpha for fifteen years, or fourteen years following Amok Time.

Seven years after Amok Time Spock (unseen) had a ponfarr.

Fourteen years after Amok Time was the ponfarr we saw in TSFS.

Because they were bonded as children, Spock and T'Pring had their ponfarrs at the same time, even after the events of Amok Time.

Young Spock was going through ponfarr in TSFS (regardless of his rapid aging) because on Vulcan T'Pring was experiencing her seventh year annual ponfarr. Inspite of her marriage to Stonn, there is a residual bond between Spock and T'Pring, it would alway be there.

Light years away, T'Pring made young Spock experience ponfarr.

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Old January 17 2014, 02:22 AM   #13
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Re: Did Spock undergo Pon Farr prior to Amok Time?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Listen to the dialogue. In "Amok Time." Spock says he hoped he would be spared "this." That sounds like he had not experienced pon farr before and had hoped it would stay that way.
STILL...Spock should have planned for this. Wish in one hand and shit in the other isn't a logical course of action Mr. Spock.
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Old January 17 2014, 02:29 AM   #14
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Re: Did Spock undergo Pon Farr prior to Amok Time?

The real question is what Spock is doing for pon farr post 'Amok Time'
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Old January 17 2014, 08:45 AM   #15
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Re: Did Spock undergo Pon Farr prior to Amok Time?

uniderth wrote: View Post
Was Spock's Pon Farr in Amok Time his first time experiencing it?

The events in Amok Time seem to indicate it was Spock's first time experiencing it, especially if we consider Vulcans to be monogamous. We are told that Vulcan's go through it every seven years of their adult life.

So does Vulcan adulthood begin at age 36(Spock's age in Amok Time)?

In the Search for Spock he goes through Pon Farr with Saavik. The Spock that does this is credited as "Spock...Age 17". This could indicate that adulthood begins much earlier.

If we take Spock's age in Amok Time and start subtracting 7 years we get:

36 -7 = 29
29 - 7 = 22
22 - 7 = 15

That means Spock went through Pon Farr at the ages of 36, 29, 22, and 15. That's three times, prior to Amok Time.

I think this is actually the most likely. But then what happens to Spock and T'pring and their less than a marriage and more than a betrothal?
Spock and T'Pring get their bond severed, T'Pring bonds with Stonn, and Spock goes on with his life. Just because Picard says he attends Spock's wedding, that doesn't mean Spock only married one time. The logical solution would have been for him to marry Saavik, but of course that leaves at least one pon farr unaccounted for - between "Amok Time" and post-"The Voyage Home". I don't have any reasonable guesses as to how he might have handled that situation.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
I figure Spock's ponfarr in TSFS like this. First I assume (there's that word) that both male and female Vulcan have a version of ponfarr. TWoK, TSFS and TVH all take place in close order. Khan was marooned in the first season of TOS, Amok Tme was in the second season.

Khan was on ceti alpha for fifteen years, or fourteen years following Amok Time.

Seven years after Amok Time Spock (unseen) had a ponfarr.

Fourteen years after Amok Time was the ponfarr we saw in TSFS.

Because they were bonded as children, Spock and T'Pring had their ponfarrs at the same time, even after the events of Amok Time.

Young Spock was going through ponfarr in TSFS (regardless of his rapid aging) because on Vulcan T'Pring was experiencing her seventh year annual ponfarr. Inspite of her marriage to Stonn, there is a residual bond between Spock and T'Pring, it would alway be there.

Light years away, T'Pring made young Spock experience ponfarr.

T'Pring would not have stayed bonded to Spock. She divorced him, and he won the right to keep her or give her away. He literally and legally gave her to Stonn, so it's ridiculous that Spock and T'Pring would not have broken the bond.
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