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Old January 18 2014, 09:11 PM   #16
Robbiesan
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Re: star trek vs star wars in five minutes question

I've yet to see how the Empire could do much of anything compared to the many fleets of ships within the Star Trek universe. They have scout ships and battleships with precious little else displayed within the films. It's rather an abbreviated form of space combat.

Taking the words of ancient Asian martial arts philosophy and having it uttered by a rubber gargoyle and then poorly explaining it, and demonstrating bizarre acrobatics while doing it, well that doesn't endear many traditional martial artists to the Star Wars franchise.

Maybe Star Wars should have been named Star Drek because it frequently is rubbish, lacking any semblance of science, resorts to entertainment aimed at children, without providing anything intellectually stimulating for their parents dragged along.

But now it's become part of American culture, firmly embedded in an iconic way, and there's no getting away from it.

There's no comparison to Star Trek which while having action elements, often dealt with serious social issues, could be extremely cerebral, while also being commercially successful.

So Star Wars might win the entertainment battle since more action figures were made and sold by adoring fans, but not the intellectual battle for attention.
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Old January 18 2014, 09:17 PM   #17
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Re: star trek vs star wars in five minutes question

Robbiesan wrote: View Post
Maybe Star Wars should have been named Star Drek because it frequently is rubbish, lacking any semblance of science
As much as I think the vast majority of posters here like or even adore Star Trek, the Roddenberry/Berman/Abrams universe and timelines don't exactly have a very tight stranglehold on the concept of believable science, neither. Dark, rogue planets without a sun yet are covered in lush jungles and lower lifeforms? Transporters? Aliens that routinely breathe oxygen, look human and speak English of one accent or another?

Star Wars doesn't try to be science. It tries to be fantasy and adventure with political intrigue and war thrown in for good measure, and a morality tale aimed at audiences of all ages, even when it falls short.
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Old January 18 2014, 09:42 PM   #18
Locutus of Bored
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Re: star trek vs star wars in five minutes question

Robbiesan wrote: View Post
Taking the words of ancient Asian martial arts philosophy and having it uttered by a rubber gargoyle and then poorly explaining it, and demonstrating bizarre acrobatics while doing it, well that doesn't endear many traditional martial artists to the Star Wars franchise.
That devastating schism from the traditional martial arts community is probably why Lucas couldn't secure the always lucrative martial arts rights he was so desperate to obtain, and had to settle for just the lousy exclusive merchandising rights instead. Lucas could have made billions like famous martial arts movie star Jeff Speakman if only he hadn't squandered it all on selling toys and games and cereal and clothes.

Maybe Star Wars should have been named Star Drek because it frequently is rubbish, lacking any semblance of science, resorts to entertainment aimed at children, without providing anything intellectually stimulating for their parents dragged along.
True. The Genesis Device, Red Matter, Trilithium, and the countless other similar completely realistic devices and technologies of Star Trek blinded me with SCIENCE in ways Star Wars never did. And Star Trek would never make basic distance errors like the whole Star Wars parsec SNAFU and have a starship travel to the center of the galaxy in the time it takes Scotty to finish his lunch or anything.
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Old January 18 2014, 09:44 PM   #19
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Re: star trek vs star wars in five minutes question

Trek got a lot of people involved in the sciences, but the franchise itself often has about as much to do with science as Franken Berry has to do with artificial reanimation of the recently deceased.
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Old January 18 2014, 09:52 PM   #20
Locutus of Bored
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Re: star trek vs star wars in five minutes question

cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
Trek got a lot of people involved in the sciences, but the franchise itself often has about as much to do with science as Franken Berry has to do with artificial reanimation of the recently deceased.
But I think it goes without saying that Boo Berry is 100% indisputable proof that we are all destined to spend the afterlife enduring a horrifying limbo as a cereal mascot, required to indefinitely remain stationary on store shelves until you're unceremoniously tossed into a rolling metal cage, and then forced to watch as your innards are devoured by voracious youngsters who then toss you in the trash and send you to be recycled, starting the whole hellish process over again. That's just science.
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Old January 18 2014, 09:54 PM   #21
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Re: star trek vs star wars in five minutes question

It's not being a rubber gargoyle spouting Asian martial arts philosophy, but then what the hell is?*



*SyFy programming excluded from discussion
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Old January 18 2014, 10:03 PM   #22
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Re: star trek vs star wars in five minutes question

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Ancient Mariner wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
On the one hand this should be a no-contest, because ... NuTrek Federation has planet-smashing technology
Don't be too proud of this technological terror [they've] constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of The Force.
Yeah, those Jedi and Sith guys were always playing up what badasses they are (midichlorians also give one the power of shameless self-promotion), but you get them into the middle of an arena surrounded by armed roaches and stupid robots and they die just as easy as anyone else.
Oh sure, counter a throwaway line of dialogue with something that actually happened.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
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Old January 18 2014, 10:22 PM   #23
Robbiesan
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Re: star trek vs star wars in five minutes question

Star Trek: communicators, automatic doors, tricorders, teleportation, warp drive, etc

All things discussed and worked on, and with some practical technology created that were inspired by the show.

There really have been teleportation experiments and successful ones at the atomic level. There really are plans for a warp engine that would fold space, though we won't see it in our lifetime. There really are cell phones that can communicate not only locally and nationally, but portable ones that can bounce signals over satelites to loved ones internationally. There really are plans for portable medical devices as well as working ones that are routinely used.

There really are portable translators that law enforcement uses to help communicate in Spanish. Star Trek introduced the idea of accessing a huge database from which to gather information, something that enables the forum to work today, as well as allowing the free exchange of public domain literature and knowledge.

How many technological devices from the Star Wars franchise have come into being?

While I have a true appreciation of Ki as a result of taking traditional martial arts classes like Karate and Aikido, was anything close to that displayed in Star Wars? NOPE. If anything it was nonsensical and only added to the ridiculous ideas people have about using Ki. Worse, there were seldom any actual katana movements actually seen within the films, nor were the duels anything close to actual battles in history.

It's not great cinema. It doesn't challenge the mind. It doesn't do much of anything except make money through merchandising.
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Old January 18 2014, 10:41 PM   #24
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Re: star trek vs star wars in five minutes question

I've always found the Star Wars films rather moving and inspiring. However, to judge a movie series against a TV series is to miss the point, I think.
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Old January 18 2014, 10:54 PM   #25
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Re: star trek vs star wars in five minutes question

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
Trek got a lot of people involved in the sciences, but the franchise itself often has about as much to do with science as Franken Berry has to do with artificial reanimation of the recently deceased.
But I think it goes without saying that Boo Berry is 100% indisputable proof that we are all destined to spend the afterlife enduring a horrifying limbo as a cereal mascot, required to indefinitely remain stationary on store shelves until you're unceremoniously tossed into a rolling metal cage, and then forced to watch as your innards are devoured by voracious youngsters who then toss you in the trash and send you to be recycled, starting the whole hellish process over again. That's just science.
You guys are losing me. Are you saying that Count Dooku was inspired by Count Chocula?
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Old January 18 2014, 10:58 PM   #26
cooleddie74
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Re: star trek vs star wars in five minutes question

It's just a coincidence that the 20 Lost Jedi and 20 Essential Vitamins and Minerals sound similar. Pay it no mind.

That's right. Pay no mind.
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Old January 18 2014, 11:15 PM   #27
Locutus of Bored
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Re: star trek vs star wars in five minutes question

cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
It's just a coincidence that the 20 Lost Jedi and 20 Essential Vitamins and Minerals sound similar. Pay it no mind.

That's right. Pay no mind.
Wait, didn't Lucas use the old scifi cereals from the 30s, 40s, and 50s as inspiration?

MY GOD. The whole original trilogy was just a ploy to sell cereal.

Behold the awful truth!
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Old January 18 2014, 11:19 PM   #28
Mr. Adventure
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Re: star trek vs star wars in five minutes question

Robbiesan wrote: View Post
How many technological devices from the Star Wars franchise have come into being?
Drone warfare, HUD technology, computerized prosthetics, robots in the workforce.
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Old January 18 2014, 11:28 PM   #29
BigJake
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Re: star trek vs star wars in five minutes question

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Drone warfare, HUD technology, computerized prosthetics, robots in the workforce.
Pretty sure the Terminator movies, Heinlein, The Bionic Man and Isaac Asimov respectively can take the lion's share of the credit for most of those? It's not like I've ever heard anyone say "I went into prosthetics research after I was inspired by Darth Vader." (We'll know Star Wars came into it when our robots are funny and personable. )

I mean really, Robbiesan's observation is true as far as it goes. Scientific aspiration did in fact separate Trek (until the reboot era, when it was actively modelled after Star Wars) from Star Wars, although Trek was never totally literalistic about science. And the Star Wars movies are indeed not Gandhi or Citizen Kane (are there even that many Star Wars fans who think otherwise?). They're relatively uninteresting observations after a certain point, but they're correct.
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Old January 18 2014, 11:51 PM   #30
Robbiesan
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Re: star trek vs star wars in five minutes question

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Drone warfare, HUD technology, computerized prosthetics, robots in the workforce.
Literally none of those things relate to Star Wars. Drone tech dates to early RPV (Remote Piloted Vehicle) projects in the early fifties.

Gimme a break. If one can't debate, they retort with cereal references. Wow, so impressive.
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