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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old January 14 2014, 12:01 PM   #16
teacake
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Re: What is your Personal Canon?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post

It's something I love about Trek, how the additions and changes made in new iterations alter our perceptions of the old. It's fiction and it's meant to be fun, but too often fandom gets lost in "Nooooo, that's not like my preconception!"
BUT it can improve the old. Improve and freshen up.
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Old January 14 2014, 01:58 PM   #17
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Re: What is your Personal Canon?

No ENT
No nuTrek
"Threshold" never happened
Data is still alive and sane (I'll even accept him in B4's body)
Klingons cannot destroy a Galaxy-class starship with a single shot.
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Old January 14 2014, 02:04 PM   #18
Forbin
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Re: What is your Personal Canon?

I mainly just try to pretend Enterprise never happened. The rest, I try to fit the inconsistencies together as best I can. And ignore some of the really stupid shit from Voyager, like "warp flight, no left or right", and people turning into salamanders.
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Old January 14 2014, 03:43 PM   #19
Robert Comsol
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Re: What is your Personal Canon?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
What the OP is talking about is continuity, not canon.
My impression was that BobtheGunslinger (welcome to the BBS!) was addressing contradicting canon issues which are the result, not the reason, of continuity errors or changed premises.

Continuity errors are the result of inadequate research, changed premises are deliberate alterations. Unfortunately there is no clear distinction as "changed premise" could simply be the excuse for inadequate research.

I think a good example for inadequate research is the mix-up of Klingon and Romulan attributes in the opening Kobayashi Maru excercise in TWOK.

OTOH, an obvious changed premise is the introduction of the Borg Queen Bee in ST VIII, altering the previously established concept of the Borg (personally, I took Picard's suggestion to "draw the line" to heart, there were just too many changed premises in this movie to be bearable to me).

That didn't stop me from enjoying VOY, but in general I think it's best to rather watch each series in its own context than trying to somehow make it a part of a Grand Unified Theory (GUT).

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
It's something I love about Trek, how the additions and changes made in new iterations alter our perceptions of the old. It's fiction and it's meant to be fun, but too often fandom gets lost in "Nooooo, that's not like my preconception!"
Since IMO there are way too many assumptions about certain aspects of the Star Trek Universe, I do like (and constantly excercise this here at the BBS, I believe) to watch certain aspects from a different point-of-view but only to the extent that I do not violate established treknological parameters of the original producers of the corresponding Trek incarnation or spin-off.

Nothing wrong to have additions which map previously "undiscovered countries" but changes that overwrite previously established parameters are simply inacceptable and unethical to me, especially when
  • these come at the expense of the previous creators which start to look as if they did not do what they are doing (which according to my observations is less often the case than usually assumed).
  • these are the result of inadequate and/or lackluster research
  • these undo a previous fella's work or concept where the intention to do so is the result of arrogance ("I know better") and/or malice.
Since I couldn't possibly reward any such aforementioned behavior (most definitely not what Star Trek propagates!) by accepting it as canon, I tend to ignore it unless it can somehow be rationalized within the parameters established by those that came first and were first served.

Bob

P.S. All the militaristic overtunes and uniform parading in nuTrek were not a concept envisioned by Gene Roddenberry, IIRC.
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Old January 14 2014, 04:10 PM   #20
BoredShipCapt'n
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Re: What is your Personal Canon?

Everything except the Klingon forehead ridges, which I ascribe to a mass hallucination.
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Old January 14 2014, 04:27 PM   #21
C.E. Evans
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Re: What is your Personal Canon?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
What the OP is talking about is continuity, not canon.
My impression was that BobtheGunslinger (welcome to the BBS!) was addressing contradicting canon issues which are the result, not the reason, of continuity errors or changed premises.
The only way there would be an issue of canon is if CBS told a licensee that they can't produce any merchandise or tie-ins to something.

Everything else is an issue of continuity.
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Old January 14 2014, 04:31 PM   #22
T'Girl
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Re: What is your Personal Canon?

Whatever a character says on screen, it is canon that they said it, however that doesn't mean what they said is true within the Star Trek universe. Example when Quark says that the Vulcan didn't re-establish warp flight until the 20th century is false, Quark thought it was true, and it is canon that he said it.



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Old January 14 2014, 04:32 PM   #23
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: What is your Personal Canon?

Robert Comsol wrote:
P.S. All the militaristic overtunes and uniform parading in nuTrek were not a concept envisioned by Gene Roddenberry, IIRC.
Surely Wrath of Khan and everything after until TNG comes under the same umbrella, since Starfleet officers in that era wear similar militaristic dress uniforms but while on regular regular duty?
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Old January 14 2014, 06:40 PM   #24
Forbin
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Re: What is your Personal Canon?

BoredShipCapt'n wrote: View Post
Everything except the Klingon forehead ridges, which I ascribe to a mass hallucination.
I ascribe them to there being multiple races in an interstellar empire.

Not everybody in Starfleet looks the same either.
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Old January 14 2014, 06:46 PM   #25
Mysterion
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Re: What is your Personal Canon?

Anything produced up to and inclusive of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is in my personal continuity of Star Trek. As the years go by I am less and less of a fan of what came after that.
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Old January 14 2014, 08:51 PM   #26
BoredShipCapt'n
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Re: What is your Personal Canon?

Forbin wrote: View Post
BoredShipCapt'n wrote: View Post
Everything except the Klingon forehead ridges, which I ascribe to a mass hallucination.
I ascribe them to there being multiple races in an interstellar empire.

Not everybody in Starfleet looks the same either.
But doesn't Kor look like himself?
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Old January 14 2014, 09:21 PM   #27
Galileo7
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Re: What is your Personal Canon?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
I hate to be that guy, but I'm going to be that guy. A clear discussion really can't occur without someone being that guy. Best to get it over with.

What the OP is talking about is continuity, not canon.

Every aired episode and theatrically released film is canon.
In a nutshell. Canon exists mostly for licensing and merchandising purposes.

As far as personal continuity goes, though, I simply go with all the TV shows and movies.
Agree.
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Old January 14 2014, 10:10 PM   #28
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Re: What is your Personal Canon?

But that John De Lancie tag along link I posted earlier rocks (at least before consoles took over gaming).
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Old January 14 2014, 10:27 PM   #29
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Re: What is your Personal Canon?

I think of anything on-screen as being canon.

I sometimes enjoy thinking of the relaunch novels as canon too, but because of how they are made it's difficult.
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Old January 14 2014, 11:32 PM   #30
I am not Spock
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Re: What is your Personal Canon?

If it's on screen, its canon. As far as I'm concerned. All six shows including TAS, and all of the movies. NuTrek is as canon as any of the Mirror Universe episodes. I appreciate that they attempted to tie them together with the rest of the ST universe, via Nimoy's presence.

I like to include some of the relaunch novels too, such as the TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT relaunches. For those who just can't let go of the 24th century storyline. And a few of the video games I like to include as well.
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