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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old January 13 2014, 11:11 PM   #1
WesleysDisciple
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Harry Mudds fate: Cruel and unusual punishment?

Was Harry Mudds fate, Cruel and unussual?

I KNOW That scene was meant to be comedy... And I Also know that Mudd was a bad guy...

But I think that Kirk was being excessively cruel.
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Old January 14 2014, 01:09 AM   #2
Dale Sams
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Re: Harry Mudds fate: Cruel and unusual punishment?

In the sense of what Mudd actually did? No. His buffoonery and the nature of the episode gloss over the fact that he pirated a Constitution Class starship and kidnapped 430 people.

In the sense of that he does have rights and "Indefinite parole" is a gross violation, yes.


Now you know who had cruel and unusual punishment? Cyrano Jones. Come on. What happened to that futuristic enlightenment. Some 20 years for transporting tribbles? Yes they are an ecological menace that could doom millions to starvation, but intent has to matter somewhat.

I suppose Kirk knows that sooner or later, Jones will figure out a quicker way to clean up the tribbles.
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Old January 14 2014, 05:35 AM   #3
mach7
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Re: Harry Mudds fate: Cruel and unusual punishment?

Well, Harry's sentence was not unlimited, just until he was not an "irritant" anymore.

As with Cyrano Jones, I imagine that Star Fleet would come in after and "clean up"
Kirks ruling.

Kirk is an idea man, he leaves the details to Star Fleet. ;-)
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Old January 14 2014, 05:47 AM   #4
Avro Arrow
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Re: Harry Mudds fate: Cruel and unusual punishment?

If you count TAS:

a) Mudd did get off the planet in relatively short order (although honestly I forget how)
b) Jones did indeed figure out a quicker way... he stole a glommer from the Klingons!
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Old January 14 2014, 06:39 AM   #5
Maurice
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Re: Harry Mudds fate: Cruel and unusual punishment?

I know the ending of Tribbles is supposed to be a "funny", but I do wonder just what the cleanup strategy was to be. I mean, I assume step one is to cut off the food supply so the tribbles don't multiply, but does that mean they'll all die of starvation? 17.8 years of rotting tribble corpses? I assume at that point Mr. Lurry is just gonna give everyone a phaser set to dematerialize and the tribbles will be gone in hours just to avoid the smell.
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Old January 14 2014, 06:39 AM   #6
Dale Sams
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Re: Harry Mudds fate: Cruel and unusual punishment?

By the way, is "I, Mudd" a play on words for"I, Robot"?

If it is...well....sorry. Captain Obvious I have never been. It took me about 10 years to figure out that Borg was derived from cyborg.
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Old January 14 2014, 08:02 AM   #7
LMFAOschwarz
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Re: Harry Mudds fate: Cruel and unusual punishment?

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Now you know who had cruel and unusual punishment? Cyrano Jones. Come on. What happened to that futuristic enlightenment. Some 20 years for transporting tribbles? Yes they are an ecological menace that could doom millions to starvation, but intent has to matter somewhat.
I almost started a thread about this a few days ago, but figured it was too obtuse to be of much interest. But since you bring it up...

Suppose someone had inadvertently traveled with some alien spider in their luggage? Same punishment? I'd imagine that Court-Martial -like episode would be kind of dull, though.

Also: twenty years? In a rehabilitation colony?

Aren't there any Star Trek punishments along the lines of, say, a years' probation?
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Old January 14 2014, 04:25 PM   #8
ssosmcin
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Re: Harry Mudds fate: Cruel and unusual punishment?

According to Kirk, though, rehab colonies are like resort colonies now. Unless that all went away when Dr. Adams was killed....
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Old January 15 2014, 02:09 AM   #9
Shawnster
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Re: Harry Mudds fate: Cruel and unusual punishment?

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
If you count TAS:

a) Mudd did get off the planet in relatively short order (although honestly I forget how)
b) Jones did indeed figure out a quicker way... he stole a glommer from the Klingons!
From TAS: Mudd's Passion
(Chapel tends to where Harry got hit by a rock)
CHAPEL: A minor bruise, Captain. He'll live.
KIRK: I thought we left you on the robot planet, Harry. Permanently.
MUDD: Never underestimate the spirit of Harcourt Fenton Mudd. I borrowed a vehicle.
SPOCK: Stole a spaceship.
MUDD: And left to find haven on Ilyra Six. A charming planet, an innocent and friendly populace.
KIRK: To whom you sold the Starfleet Space Academy. Harry.
SPOCK: A fraud. But sold for enough credits to get to Sirius Nine.
MUDD: Where I discovered a boon to humanoid life, a miracle love potion.
KIRK: Which you sold to a thousand inhabitants, who immediately became ill from using it.
MUDD: I hadn't counted on their unusual biochemistry. So, I did the logical thing. I left in haste.
KIRK: And came here to swindle honest miners.
MUDD: The love potion works, Captain. If you'll allow me to procure some from my ship
(but they leave and activate the forcefield)


Now, I don't know what spaceship would visit that planet with the androids. Of course, they had to have some spaceships since Norman left the planet and got on board the Enterprise.
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Old January 15 2014, 02:27 AM   #10
Warped9
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Re: Harry Mudds fate: Cruel and unusual punishment?

I thought I remember Mudd saying in "Mudd's Passion" he introduced gambling to androids and escaped in the ensuing confusion.
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Old January 15 2014, 02:49 AM   #11
Armored Saint
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Re: Harry Mudds fate: Cruel and unusual punishment?

Khan had to make a come-back before Kirk understood how his arbitrary decisions weren't great ideas.
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Old January 15 2014, 03:15 AM   #12
MANT!
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Re: Harry Mudds fate: Cruel and unusual punishment?

though Non- canon, the novel Mudd's Angels had Harry banished from the Galaxy for eternity..
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Old January 15 2014, 07:42 AM   #13
Maurice
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Re: Harry Mudds fate: Cruel and unusual punishment?

^^^Mudd's Angels contains three stories: adaptations of Mudd's Women and I, Mudd and the stry you mention called The Business, As Usual, During Altercations, which I just read a synopsis of. Profoundly stupid.
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Old January 15 2014, 09:26 AM   #14
WesleysDisciple
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Re: Harry Mudds fate: Cruel and unusual punishment?

on Khan... if Kirk reported it to starfleet stranding khan on the planet... even if they accepted, that it was an appropiate fate, and that Kirk HAD given Khan a choice... I Think they'd have kept half an eye on the planet, to be ready to help in true calamnitys, like an unexpected disease breakout... and definitely would have sent, albeit well armed and escorted medical relief if they saw the planet explode, and likely relocate them after that with the federations sincere apolagys.
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Old January 15 2014, 01:00 PM   #15
Robert Comsol
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Re: Harry Mudds fate: Cruel and unusual punishment?

^^ Perhaps one or several of the bureaucrats in Starfleet decided to sweep the whole incident under a rug. In "Space Seed" we saw some admiration for this 20th Century dictator expressed by Scotty, not to mention the historic interest to research this period of time.

So some people would have been keen to travel to Ceti Alpha V and by doing so would have inevitably provided Khan with a means of escape.

At the end of the episode Kirk does not suggest that he will check their progress:

SPOCK: It would be interesting, Captain, to return to that world in a hundred years and to learn what crop has sprung from the seed you planted today.
KIRK: Yes, Mister Spock, it would indeed.

(OTOH the planet has been cartographed and examined so it stands to reason that sooner or later someone would have accidentally visited the planet, especially since it is Class M)

Bob
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