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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old January 15 2014, 12:34 PM   #31
desfem79
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
I don't excuse Shatner's acting, at all. He's always been hammy, that's "what you get," with him. That's the product. The scarey part about that though, is ... he's almost the only one from STAR TREK's original series who managed to have any further career! What's that say for the 2nd bananas? Nevermind, I don't want to know. What I do know is that Patrick Stewart has incredible range. He's always juggled being a leading man and a character actor very well. For instance, in his performance as Duncan Idaho, there's no trace of Jean Luc Picard and vice versa. Whereas, William Shatner's Admiral James T. Kirk and T.J. Hooker are one in the same. The very same ...
I have to be honest and say that I've never seen a Shatner piece and thought "Damn!" I think because TOS was groundbreaking and he was the lead, it made him famous. And he was handsome (I'm not gay, but I'm sure a lot of women would have thought so in the 60s, even today if watching a TOS re-run) so of course he had that in his favour.

Whilst Avery Brooks is not A-list per se, he's a better actor than Shatner by a country mile IMO.
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Old January 15 2014, 12:47 PM   #32
2takesfrakes
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

Yes! That story of, well not Roddenberry, but Robert Justman (?) seeing Picard reading at a lecture and insisting he be casted is yet another inspirational story about Sir Patrick Stewart. Again, his talent was evident and it was recognized and he received so much acclaim for it. If we just do what we do well and enjoy doing, even at the behest of others, you never know how that might pay off for you. In this country, talent does get rewarded, but not always through the usual avenues. If we but apply ourselves at whatever our passion is, somebody's going to notice that ... and by the way, Jeremy Irons is The Best! I love him in that old FLASH GORDON movie, looking like C-3PO in a black robe, and in cahoots with the Mingers! The kind of bad guy you love to hate! He's great ...
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Old January 15 2014, 12:55 PM   #33
Shat Happens
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

Whichever, Shatner or the other guy, is the better actor, is endlessly debatable and bordeline pointless (but the answer is Shatner). However, I do believe you don't know the meaning of the word "standard".

The answer in this case, is Shatner+Nimoy.

Last edited by Shat Happens; January 15 2014 at 12:58 PM. Reason: because I can
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Old January 16 2014, 05:18 AM   #34
Khan444
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

desfem79 wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
I don't excuse Shatner's acting, at all. He's always been hammy, that's "what you get," with him. That's the product. The scarey part about that though, is ... he's almost the only one from STAR TREK's original series who managed to have any further career! What's that say for the 2nd bananas? Nevermind, I don't want to know. What I do know is that Patrick Stewart has incredible range. He's always juggled being a leading man and a character actor very well. For instance, in his performance as Duncan Idaho, there's no trace of Jean Luc Picard and vice versa. Whereas, William Shatner's Admiral James T. Kirk and T.J. Hooker are one in the same. The very same ...
If you look at Stewart's pre-Trek film career he's mostly in supporting roles and not always secondary ones, either. And in Dune he played Gurney Halleck, not Duncan Idaho. With out Trek he'd probably continued to be in supporting character parts in films.
He's said publicly that he wasn't looking for Hollywood work, and was content to just do Shakespeare and other British literary works on the stage. I think story is that an American Shakespeare body invited him as an RSC speaker, Roddenberry saw him and the rest is history. Even still as a fellow Brit, I'd say he's one of our greatest living actors. Only Sir Anthony Hopkins, Sir Ian McKellen, Jeremy Irons and Sir Michael Caine are on a par.
Daniel Day-Lewis, Gary Oldman, Alan Rickman, Sir Ben Kingsley, Idris Elba, and Christian Bale all say hello.
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Old January 16 2014, 06:09 AM   #35
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

Shat Happens wrote: View Post
Whichever, Shatner or the other guy, is the better actor, is endlessly debatable and bordeline pointless (but the answer is Shatner). However, I do believe you don't know the meaning of the word "standard".

The answer in this case, is Shatner+Nimoy.
Bill Shatner can be exceptional when the situation calls for it. There are episode of "Boston Legal" where he plays Denny Crane, and his performance is so engrossing (and often heart rending), you can see all of the false pomposity, the zaniness of his character, just ripped away, and it's just bare for all to see.
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Old January 16 2014, 06:27 AM   #36
Nerys Myk
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Shat Happens wrote: View Post
Whichever, Shatner or the other guy, is the better actor, is endlessly debatable and bordeline pointless (but the answer is Shatner). However, I do believe you don't know the meaning of the word "standard".

The answer in this case, is Shatner+Nimoy.
Bill Shatner can be exceptional when the situation calls for it. There are episode of "Boston Legal" where he plays Denny Crane, and his performance is so engrossing (and often heart rending), you can see all of the false pomposity, the zaniness of his character, just ripped away, and it's just bare for all to see.
He been nominated seven times for an Emmy and won twice (six for Denny Crane) So he must be doing something right.
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Old January 16 2014, 06:59 AM   #37
Makarov
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

It's hard for me to believe that some of the powers that be behind TNG didn't want Patrick Stewart at first. It's just crazy to me that they almost missed him and probably would have gone with someone more like Kirk.
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Old January 16 2014, 09:58 AM   #38
Timewalker
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
The way I've always figured it, The Original Series was the John the Baptist of STAR TREK, paving the way for the greatness to come: The Next Generation! The campy fun of TOS was an extremely entertaining introduction to the STAR TREK universe, but TNG was the Meat & Potatoes of the franchise. And I'll always be in debt to Gene Roddenberry for giving us both of them!...
Uh-uh. TOS was meat and potatoes. TNG was a pretentious fancy restaurant with fancy prices and food that tasted mediocre at best (unless the chef was having an exceptional day as in "Best of Both Worlds" and "Family," "Yesterday's Enterprise," and "Chain of Command"), and a lot of people said of course it was great because if it wasn't, why were they paying the fancy prices?

Taranis wrote: View Post
He was not an instant hit, for many, including myself it took a while to learn to like him in the part for those of use who remember him in other productions. Dune, I'Claudius mainly.
I first saw Patrick Stewart as Lucius Aelius Sejanus in I, Claudius. He was so deliciously evil and did so many horrible things... yet I felt for the character when he was told his children had been executed. If Stewart could make me feel sorry for a villain getting his just desserts (being executed and his body thrown on the Stairs for the public to mutilate and spit on), I'd say he did a damn fine job of portraying the character.

While not as good as the actor in the miniseries version of Dune/Children of Dune, Patrick Stewart was a credible Gurney Halleck. I'm sure it wasn't his decision to spend most of the movie toting around the Atreides family pug dog.

urbandefault wrote: View Post
If Shatner had had an English accent, might his style have been a bit more accepted?
Just because an actor has an English accent, it doesn't mean he's actually good. Take Matt Smith, for example. I know there are a lot of Matt Smith fans here, but I couldn't stand him. Of all the actors who have ever played the Doctor, I think he's the worst.

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
I don't excuse Shatner's acting, at all. He's always been hammy, that's "what you get," with him. That's the product. The scarey part about that though, is ... he's almost the only one from STAR TREK's original series who managed to have any further career! What's that say for the 2nd bananas? Nevermind, I don't want to know. What I do know is that Patrick Stewart has incredible range. He's always juggled being a leading man and a character actor very well. For instance, in his performance as Duncan Idaho, there's no trace of Jean Luc Picard and vice versa. Whereas, William Shatner's Admiral James T. Kirk and T.J. Hooker are one in the same. The very same ...
Please. If you're going to pontificate about something and include anything about Dune in it, please get your facts right. Patrick Stewart played Gurney Halleck. Duncan Idaho was played by Richard Jordan.

And of course there's no trace of Jean-Luc Picard in Gurney Halleck. Dune was released several years before TNG's first season.

However, I will agree that Patrick Stewart has an excellent range. I enjoyed his performance in Lady Jane, and he was excellent in Robin Hood: Men in Tights (brief as that appearance was).

I saw the early T.J. Hooker episodes and thought Shatner was very good in them. I didn't see the whole series (wasn't into cop shows at the time), but my grandfather never missed a single one.

desfem79 wrote: View Post
I have to be honest and say that I've never seen a Shatner piece and thought "Damn!" I think because TOS was groundbreaking and he was the lead, it made him famous. And he was handsome (I'm not gay, but I'm sure a lot of women would have thought so in the 60s, even today if watching a TOS re-run) so of course he had that in his favour.
Yes, '60s-Shatner was considered handsome. My grandmother had a crush on him.
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Old January 16 2014, 10:09 AM   #39
JD5000
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

Debating the quality (or not) of Shatner's acting is a non sequitor. Star Trek wouldn't be what it is today without his Kirk.

I think Shatner set the standard. Stewart's Picard may have been casted differently if Roddenberry hadn't been trying to cast off similarities to TOS for the new series.

That said, I do think Patrick Stewart is a great actor, played Picard perfectly, and I think anyone that thinks he takes himself too seriously is just hearing the accent.
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Old January 16 2014, 10:21 AM   #40
J. Allen
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
He been nominated seven times for an Emmy and won twice (six for Denny Crane) So he must be doing something right.
Agreed.

JD5000 wrote: View Post
Debating the quality (or not) of Shatner's acting is a non sequitor. Star Trek wouldn't be what it is today without his Kirk.

I think Shatner set the standard. Stewart's Picard may have been casted differently if Roddenberry hadn't been trying to cast off similarities to TOS for the new series.

That said, I do think Patrick Stewart is a great actor, played Picard perfectly, and I think anyone that thinks he takes himself too seriously is just hearing the accent.
Both men did excellent jobs with the material they had, whether good or bad. In Stewart's case, though, he did take himself very seriously at first. It took some time for him to loosen up when it came to TNG.
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Old January 16 2014, 11:55 AM   #41
2takesfrakes
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

Timewalker wrote: View Post
TNG was a ... fancy restaurant with fancy prices, and a lot of people said of course it was great ..
I'll have a glass of Château Picard with that statement!

Timewalker wrote: View Post
... Patrick Stewart has an excellent range. I enjoyed his performance in Lady Jane, and he was excellent in Robin Hood: Men in Tights (brief as that appearance was).
... AGREED!!! Sir Patrick Stewart always delivers. It's like watching a world-class athlete winning the Gold Medal! Even now, in his advanced years, he's managed to keep physically fit. It's good to know not every STAR TREK actor has to bloat in their Golden Years. Again, I find that inspirational about the man.
Patrick Stewart fans ... unite!
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Old January 16 2014, 12:06 PM   #42
Timewalker
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
TNG was a ... fancy restaurant with fancy prices, and a lot of people said of course it was great ..
I'll have a glass of Château Picard with that statement!
That's some selective editing...

I hope you realize that my original post was not meant to praise TNG.
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Old January 16 2014, 12:25 PM   #43
Margaret
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

I think Sir Patrick us a brilliant actor.I saw him do his one man ' Christmas Carol '. A few years back and was blown away. However it annoys me when people praise one actor whilst disparaging another. Shatner is a better actor than some people give him credit for. I'm sure he did not win two Emmys out of sentiment.
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Old January 16 2014, 12:39 PM   #44
desfem79
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

Khan444 wrote: View Post
desfem79 wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
If you look at Stewart's pre-Trek film career he's mostly in supporting roles and not always secondary ones, either. And in Dune he played Gurney Halleck, not Duncan Idaho. With out Trek he'd probably continued to be in supporting character parts in films.
He's said publicly that he wasn't looking for Hollywood work, and was content to just do Shakespeare and other British literary works on the stage. I think story is that an American Shakespeare body invited him as an RSC speaker, Roddenberry saw him and the rest is history. Even still as a fellow Brit, I'd say he's one of our greatest living actors. Only Sir Anthony Hopkins, Sir Ian McKellen, Jeremy Irons and Sir Michael Caine are on a par.
Daniel Day-Lewis, Gary Oldman, Alan Rickman, Sir Ben Kingsley, Idris Elba, and Christian Bale all say hello.
opinion, you damned evil thing...
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Old January 16 2014, 01:43 PM   #45
Taranis
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
... AGREED!!! Sir Patrick Stewart always delivers. It's like watching a world-class athlete winning the Gold Medal! Even now, in his advanced years, he's managed to keep physically fit. It's good to know not every STAR TREK actor has to bloat in their Golden Years. Again, I find that inspirational about the man.
Patrick Stewart fans ... unite!
I think this is the lowest statement you spouted yet.
Stewart is 73
Shatner is 82
If you like Stewart more.. great, more power to you, but there is no need to deride another Actor .
From what I have read from your posts, your trying your best to inflame argument.
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