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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old January 14 2014, 02:31 PM   #16
urbandefault
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
I see that the theme of "Sir Patrick Stewart Setting the Standard" is something many are going to have to work at ...
Do you mean that those who don't completely agree with you will have to work at it until they do? If so, you might have to work at accepting the fact that many won't be bothered.

I think Stewart is a fine actor and brought better performances out of some of the cast than might have been possible without him.

By the same token, Shatner is also a fine actor. Different style, but fine nonetheless.

I think people today are used to seeing actors who were trained differently than Shatner was--actors whose main body of work is in tv and movies. More nuanced, less "big."

It's also possible that Shatner is perceived as a lesser actor just because he never turned down a role. That put him in some questionable productions, but he never failed to give it his best.

If Shatner had had an English accent, might his style have been a bit more accepted?

Last edited by urbandefault; January 14 2014 at 02:48 PM.
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Old January 14 2014, 03:05 PM   #17
Shat Happens
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

And awesome speeches.

Was Picard in command of the Enterprise in the first 6 movies, V'Ger would be speeched into another dimension, Khan would be out-speeched in the nebula, Kruge would shoot himself, Picard would have made a speech to the probe himself in whale, he would speech God to oblivion, and Gorkon would be still alive because Picard would be trading Shakespeare quotes with Chang to this day.
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Old January 14 2014, 03:38 PM   #18
SpocksLeftEar
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

Patrick Stewart and his acting abilities are hugely overrated. He takes himself far too seriously, and this has become worse since TNG made him famous. I don't see how his acting has lead to making his colleagues better actors. Gates McFadden was never a convincing Doctor, while Diana Muldaur made Stewart look like a rookie.
All the other actors were good and they became better when the writers began to realize what to do with them (like stopping with Marina Sirtis feeling "Pain" and "Anger" all the time). This had nothing to do with Stewart. In fact when you look at Nemesis where he was one of the producers he put himself even more into the middle of the action while his colleagues were reduced to a few scenes (except for Spiner, but he was also a producer).
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Old January 14 2014, 03:48 PM   #19
bbailey861
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

Shat Happens wrote: View Post
And awesome speeches.

Was Picard in command of the Enterprise in the first 6 movies, V'Ger would be speeched into another dimension, Khan would be out-speeched in the nebula, Kruge would shoot himself, Picard would have made a speech to the probe himself in whale, he would speech God to oblivion, and Gorkon would be still alive because Picard would be trading Shakespeare quotes with Chang to this day.
The Kruge one was the best!!
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Old January 14 2014, 11:37 PM   #20
2takesfrakes
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

urbandefault wrote: View Post
Do you mean that those who don't completely agree with you will have to work at it until they do? If so, you might have to work at accepting the fact that many won't be bothered.
I held out that hope. Yes. And why shouldn't they agree with me? For one thing, it would please me, right? That's often the start of a sparkling conversation. But, I mean ... think about it, now. Just ... just think about it, for a minute and try to see it from my perspective:

Here I am, starting a thread in The Next Generation Forum, and posting about the sheer amazing talent, the awesomeness, of The Great Patrick Stewart AND how he's an inspiration to all! ... I certainly wasn't expecting ... this!
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Old January 14 2014, 11:54 PM   #21
SpocksLeftEar
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Here I am, starting a thread in The Next Generation Forum, and posting about the sheer amazing talent, the awesomeness, of The Great Patrick Stewart AND how he's an inspiration to all! ... I certainly wasn't expecting ... this!
You stated an opinion, not a fact. This of course leads to other people stating their opinion. Some agree with, some don't. If you don't to hear criticism just don't start a thread like this. It's that easy.
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Old January 14 2014, 11:58 PM   #22
SpocksLeftEar
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

urbandefault wrote: View Post
It's also possible that Shatner is perceived as a lesser actor just because he never turned down a role. That put him in some questionable productions, but he never failed to give it his best.
If that's the case people should consider that Michael Caine has done some really questionable work. But maybe these folks still live with their parents and never had to earn money to pay their rent. Maybe then they would stop thinking this way.
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Old January 15 2014, 12:40 AM   #23
2takesfrakes
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

SpocksLeftEar wrote: View Post
Patrick Stewart and his acting abilities are hugely overrated. He takes himself far too seriously, and this has become worse since TNG made him famous. I don't see how his acting has lead to making his colleagues better actors. Gates McFadden was never a convincing Doctor, while Diana Muldaur made Stewart look like a rookie.
All the other actors were good and they became better when the writers began to realize what to do with them (like stopping with Marina Sirtis feeling "Pain" and "Anger" all the time). This had nothing to do with Stewart. In fact when you look at Nemesis where he was one of the producers he put himself even more into the middle of the action while his colleagues were reduced to a few scenes (except for Spiner, but he was also a producer).
That's an interesting ... opinion!
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Old January 15 2014, 01:45 AM   #24
Shat Happens
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

Also, Kirk is better than Picard
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Old January 15 2014, 03:04 AM   #25
M'rk, son of Mogh
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

Why do people excuse Shatner's acting with "Well, that's his training in theatre!".

Where did Sir Patrick learn the craft again? Oh, right.

I guess that can't be the excuse then...
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Old January 15 2014, 03:23 AM   #26
2takesfrakes
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

I don't excuse Shatner's acting, at all. He's always been hammy, that's "what you get," with him. That's the product. The scarey part about that though, is ... he's almost the only one from STAR TREK's original series who managed to have any further career! What's that say for the 2nd bananas? Nevermind, I don't want to know. What I do know is that Patrick Stewart has incredible range. He's always juggled being a leading man and a character actor very well. For instance, in his performance as Duncan Idaho, there's no trace of Jean Luc Picard and vice versa. Whereas, William Shatner's Admiral James T. Kirk and T.J. Hooker are one in the same. The very same ...
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Old January 15 2014, 04:33 AM   #27
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
I don't excuse Shatner's acting, at all. He's always been hammy, that's "what you get," with him. That's the product. The scarey part about that though, is ... he's almost the only one from STAR TREK's original series who managed to have any further career! What's that say for the 2nd bananas? Nevermind, I don't want to know. What I do know is that Patrick Stewart has incredible range. He's always juggled being a leading man and a character actor very well. For instance, in his performance as Duncan Idaho, there's no trace of Jean Luc Picard and vice versa. Whereas, William Shatner's Admiral James T. Kirk and T.J. Hooker are one in the same. The very same ...
If you look at Stewart's pre-Trek film career he's mostly in supporting roles and not always secondary ones, either. And in Dune he played Gurney Halleck, not Duncan Idaho. With out Trek he'd probably continued to be in supporting character parts in films.
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Old January 15 2014, 07:02 AM   #28
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

^ Very true. Star Trek gave him the boost he needed to gain better visibility, and it worked in his favor.
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Old January 15 2014, 12:27 PM   #29
desfem79
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

SpocksLeftEar wrote: View Post
Patrick Stewart and his acting abilities are hugely overrated. He takes himself far too seriously, and this has become worse since TNG made him famous. I don't see how his acting has lead to making his colleagues better actors. Gates McFadden was never a convincing Doctor, while Diana Muldaur made Stewart look like a rookie.
All the other actors were good and they became better when the writers began to realize what to do with them (like stopping with Marina Sirtis feeling "Pain" and "Anger" all the time). This had nothing to do with Stewart. In fact when you look at Nemesis where he was one of the producers he put himself even more into the middle of the action while his colleagues were reduced to a few scenes (except for Spiner, but he was also a producer).
I would say the best acted episodes were from Sir Stewart, but then in the films this was consciously done by Berman and co. IMO. Even Generations was Picard heavy (of the TNG cast at the least), and it makes sense in a way since as the shows are ensemble casts, Captains are still seen as the principal characters.
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Old January 15 2014, 12:30 PM   #30
desfem79
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Re: Sir Patrick Stewart Set the Standard

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
I don't excuse Shatner's acting, at all. He's always been hammy, that's "what you get," with him. That's the product. The scarey part about that though, is ... he's almost the only one from STAR TREK's original series who managed to have any further career! What's that say for the 2nd bananas? Nevermind, I don't want to know. What I do know is that Patrick Stewart has incredible range. He's always juggled being a leading man and a character actor very well. For instance, in his performance as Duncan Idaho, there's no trace of Jean Luc Picard and vice versa. Whereas, William Shatner's Admiral James T. Kirk and T.J. Hooker are one in the same. The very same ...
If you look at Stewart's pre-Trek film career he's mostly in supporting roles and not always secondary ones, either. And in Dune he played Gurney Halleck, not Duncan Idaho. With out Trek he'd probably continued to be in supporting character parts in films.
He's said publicly that he wasn't looking for Hollywood work, and was content to just do Shakespeare and other British literary works on the stage. I think story is that an American Shakespeare body invited him as an RSC speaker, Roddenberry saw him and the rest is history. Even still as a fellow Brit, I'd say he's one of our greatest living actors. Only Sir Anthony Hopkins, Sir Ian McKellen, Jeremy Irons and Sir Michael Caine are on a par.
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