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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old January 13 2014, 07:31 PM   #61
Harvey
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Re: Fact checking These Are The Voyages....

Definitely. I have a few other quotes like that from the same period about Star Trek.

It puts to rest any notion that NBC didn't care about demographics (along with the idea that Nielsen didn't measure them!).
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Old January 13 2014, 07:41 PM   #62
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Re: Fact checking These Are The Voyages....

Harvey wrote: View Post
Definitely. I have a few other quotes like that from the same period about Star Trek.

It puts to rest any notion that NBC didn't care about demographics (along with the idea that Nielsen didn't measure them!).
Cushman simply should have elaborated on this. It would have actually bolstered his argument because it would have explained it more fully. It isn't what he's saying is totally false, but that without a fuller explanation one could come to an incorrect interpretation or conclusion.

Mind you we don't yet know what the content of Volume 2 is so it's possible he might explain this more fully. But for myself I could see putting at least some of this in Volume 1.
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Old January 13 2014, 07:57 PM   #63
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Re: Fact checking These Are The Voyages....

I was curious about this Tammy Grimes whose show was on opposite TOS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammy_Grimes

Small world -- turns out she was formerly married to Christopher Plummer. Amanda Plummer is her daughter. And she was the original choice to play Samantha on Bewitched, but got out of her contract to do a Noel Coward musical on Broadway.
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Old January 14 2014, 01:31 AM   #64
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Re: Fact checking These Are The Voyages....

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Going further from the above goes to another point made earlier in the article: even a good performing show can be killed if someone doesn't like it for some reason or other just as a poor performing show can be propped up and kept going even if it's losing money simply because someone likes it.
The situation with LOU GRANT and TAXI kind of bears this out. LOU GRANT was a little ahead of TAXI in the ratings (and probably doing better in terms of Emmys as well), but when CBS killed GRANT (presumably because of Asner's politics as much as the mediocre ratings), nobody rushed to pick the show up, whereas another network grabbed up TAXI right away for another season (this is all according to stuff I remember from Ellison's AN EDGE IN MY VOICE.)

And for a 60s era example of arbitrariness, one of Ellison's GLASS TEAT volumes mentions that CBS had to decide between keeping HE & SHE and some BLONDIE/DAGWOOD abomination, and that the network prez was saying his job was on the line about whether he would choose correctly (fat chance of that, he didn't turn into Julian Glover in Indy 3 after making the horrendous choice to kill HE & SHE, a classy show I can remember loving, even though I was only 8 or so.) A lot of this stuff might just be guesswork or even faith ... I mean, CHEERS did lousy at first too.
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Old January 14 2014, 04:20 AM   #65
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Re: Fact checking These Are The Voyages....

Hill Street Blues was never a ratings powerhouse, yet it gave NBC a certain amount of positive cred that made it worth keeping around.
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Old January 14 2014, 06:06 AM   #66
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Re: Fact checking These Are The Voyages....

Maurice wrote: View Post
Hill Street Blues was never a ratings powerhouse, yet it gave NBC a certain amount of positive cred that made it worth keeping around.
Another of my favorite series (it's a crime they've only released the first two seasons on DVD). I clearly recall the critics LOVED HSB and NBC would have had barrels of bad ink spent on them had they cancelled it before it wound down after season seven.

I quote Wikipedia: "Hill Street Blues received rave reviews from critics initially in general alongside dismal Nielsen ratings."

.... as well as this great news: "On December 5, 2013, it was announced that Shout! Factory had acquired the rights to the series and will be releasing Hill Street Blues- The Complete Series on DVD in Region 1 on March 25, 2014."
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Old January 16 2014, 01:50 AM   #67
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Re: Fact checking These Are The Voyages....

Thanks, Warped9, for restarting the thread. I've enjoyed reading these posts. The seeming misleading assertions of the author are definitely going to keep me from reading the book. Star Trek deserves a truly in-depth journalistic chronicle, and, sadly, it doesn't sound like this is it.
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Old January 16 2014, 02:28 AM   #68
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Re: Fact checking These Are The Voyages....

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Thanks, Warped9, for restarting the thread. I've enjoyed reading these posts. The seeming misleading assertions of the author are definitely going to keep me from reading the book. Star Trek deserves a truly in-depth journalistic chronicle, and, sadly, it doesn't sound like this is it.
You're welcome. I simply felt there was more to discuss.

That said my general feeling isn't that the author is flat out wrong in some of his assertions, but rather they should be more clearly explained. Some things he said strike me as incorrect out of ignorance---he didn't double check to make certain of his facts. The two examples that come to mind are his idea that TOS introduced the miniskirt (it had already been established) and that NBC had no previous experience with science fiction (which Harvey has illustrated they had in the 1950s).

The main assertion he makes in regard to Star Trek's ratings being better than many of us have been led to believe all these decades is not off base because he's not claiming the show was a runaway hit. But he simply should have elaborated further. And, in fairness, he might just do that in the next volumes, but we don't see any indication of that in Volume 1.

Regarding all the other materiel in the book particularly the bulk of it which is the detailed story-behind-the-story of each episode. I find that materiel very interesting and it would be worth a book all on its own.

I still think this is a worthwhile read and I look forward to the next volumes even knowing about some of the flubs. There's still fascinating materiel to get out of this work.
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Old January 16 2014, 04:16 AM   #69
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Re: Fact checking These Are The Voyages....

Warped9, I appreciate your seeing the good in this book that I rather enjoyed discussing in the now-defunct thread.
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Old January 16 2014, 04:35 AM   #70
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Re: Fact checking These Are The Voyages....

Materiel is military materials and equipment.
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Old January 16 2014, 04:48 AM   #71
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Re: Fact checking These Are The Voyages....

Maurice wrote: View Post
Materiel is military materials and equipment.
How about we just call it "stuff?"
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Old January 16 2014, 08:07 AM   #72
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Re: Fact checking These Are The Voyages....

Or "material".
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Old January 17 2014, 09:57 PM   #73
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Re: Fact checking These Are The Voyages....

I'm up to "The Enemy Within" and I already don't enjoy Cushman injecting his views. Just give me the details about making the shows. I can form my own opinions, thank you very much.

Also, in "Mudd's Women" it states, "On June 31, Roddenberry's request was denied."

Neil
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Old January 17 2014, 10:28 PM   #74
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Re: Fact checking These Are The Voyages....

Indysolo wrote: View Post
Also, in "Mudd's Women" it states, "On June 31, Roddenberry's request was denied."

Neil
For me, that has got to be right up there with the press release about Clarke's 2001: a space odyssey novel that claims, "the year 1002 is only a short time away." (but to be fair, the 2001 goof was a computer error, not a human error.)
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Old January 17 2014, 11:01 PM   #75
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Re: Fact checking These Are The Voyages....

trevanian wrote: View Post
Indysolo wrote: View Post
Also, in "Mudd's Women" it states, "On June 31, Roddenberry's request was denied."

Neil
For me, that has got to be right up there with the press release about Clarke's 2001: a space odyssey novel that claims, "the year 1002 is only a short time away." (but to be fair, the 2001 goof was a computer error, not a human error.)
"It can only be attributable to human error."

Neil
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