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Old January 14 2014, 03:19 AM   #16
teacake
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Re: Decon blue porn. You know you want it

Robbiesan you have missed the point of my post. Humans are sexual beings. The sexist element is not having sexual scenes it's having sexual scenes where only certain shapes of people are included. Getting rid of sexism doesn't mean getting rid of sex, or sexiness for its own sake.
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Old January 14 2014, 03:39 AM   #17
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Re: Decon blue porn. You know you want it

teacake wrote: View Post
Robbiesan you have missed the point of my post. Humans are sexual beings. The sexist element is not having sexual scenes it's having sexual scenes where only certain shapes of people are included. Getting rid of sexism doesn't mean getting rid of sex, or sexiness for its own sake.
Right. It's also not having scenes of Archer merely commanding only T'Pol and/or Sato into the chamber. There's a way to celebrate the human body without resorting to oppressive gender roles, simultaneously without shaming sex or body as well.

Now, was it handled in the smoothest or most aware way on Enterprise? Certainly not. But respecting the human body is itself not sexist. If it's done in a way that depowers women though, then there'd be a problem.
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Old January 14 2014, 03:41 AM   #18
Robbiesan
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Re: Decon blue porn. You know you want it

teacake wrote: View Post
Robbiesan you have missed the point of my post. Humans are sexual beings. The sexist element is not having sexual scenes it's having sexual scenes where only certain shapes of people are included. Getting rid of sexism doesn't mean getting rid of sex, or sexiness for its own sake.
Then Teacake you likewise haven't read my original post. I have no issue with nudity per se. It's when it doesn't do anything that is relatable to the story.

There's no need to get rid of sex at all. Sex is normal and expected and so scenes in which there is romance and intimacy are going to have sexual elements to them.

What's not normal is creating an expectation for the actors to please us by disrobing during routine situations so we can have porn. That's bad all around and I'm rather surprised that hardcord Star Trek fans would want this. It's disrespectful of the actors in general.

I don't need them to do that. It's not related to Trek in any way. I'd rather they discuss science and be good rolemodels to encourage people to study science.

In the history of Trek, there were so many firsts which resulted in a generation of young people desiring to push the boundaries of occupations outside their parent's expectations. It also made many of us more accepting of people's personal choices and encouraging women to seek diverse roles. Good gosh, at the time women were largely expected to be nurses or teachers, and nothing else.

Prior to 1966, women in acting were merely ornaments in most productions. It was pretty pathetic. To me, the decon scenes are a return to that paradigm of ornamentation. I'd rather see T'pol struggling slowly to control her emotions post-Tellarium D exposure, experimenting with letting a little of her emotions show in a very measured way, and then losing control due to drug abuse of that Tellarium D.

If you watch all of the episodes in order, then you see a very fine young actress performing about very serious social matters and showing control in her ability with very nuanced but spare emotion and gestures. This is remarkable.

What isn't remarkable is making her be a sex symbol just to please the fans. That's awful, I think to do to a young person. She doesn't have to do that to earn my respect.

Last edited by Robbiesan; January 14 2014 at 04:32 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old January 14 2014, 04:00 AM   #19
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Re: Decon blue porn. You know you want it

I can enjoy looking at sexy stuff without it having anything at all to do with the story. I don't agree that this is somehow base or pulls down Star Trek. I like looking at people as sexual beings with their clothes on too, taking them off doesn't magically make the show lowbrow. The idea that gratuitous sexual scenes degrades a show is a notion I'd like to see revamped. Let's do those scenes with more creativity, leave out the sexist dynamics exampled by Cyke101, add other dynamics that further character personalities when possible.

PUT EVERYONE IN THE DECON CHAMBER.

Brave new Sexy. You can do it Star Trek!!
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Old January 14 2014, 04:49 AM   #20
Robbiesan
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Re: Decon blue porn. You know you want it

That sounds more like porn and prostitution and less like acting and Star Trek. One wonders if nursing, being a chemist, being an engineer, being a banker, should be this way based upon the desire of co-workers to see people naked.

This is not impressing me much as a new member of the community. It's not much like the fans of the series I've known over 40 years either.
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Old January 14 2014, 06:12 AM   #21
HopefulRomantic
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Re: Decon blue porn. You know you want it

Welcome to the forum, Robbiesan.

There are probably as many viewpoints to this issue as there are viewers, but I do think the goals of acting in a highly visual medium where physical attractiveness is considered an asset are different from the goals of banking or nursing. The actors I know are well aware that being perceived as handsome/beautiful/sexy, and everything that goes with that, from healthy admiration to base objectification, is part of the job.

This show's cast is brimming with attractive people and skimpy-clothing scenes for a reason. It's good business. It is the business of show. And if a few Trek writers tended to get stuck in "little boys giggling in the bathroom" mode sometimes while writing about sex or relationships... well, we don't all think that way. The actors are all certainly a lot more than just pretty faces and hot bodies.

I love this show! But not just because of the handsome cast. I love the stories and the characters. I stare at Bakula's eyes a lot more than his impressive physique. But I still stare when he does shirtless scenes, because I think he's gorgeous. My husband teases me regularly about this.
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Old January 14 2014, 06:30 AM   #22
Robbiesan
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Re: Decon blue porn. You know you want it

You know where this leads? Career ending moves like Meg Ryan and In the Cut (2003). No thanks, I'll stick to an older school of appreciation of the arts and not expect to see that kind of nonsense particularly in science fiction.

If I liked that garbage, I'd watch Humanoids from the Deep a sexual exploitation film from the 80s.

It wasn't that long ago that women were picked for jobs on the basis of their physical appearance, and to perpetuate that nonsense, especially on a show that supposed to be high-brow is backward thinking.

I would imagine then that the pathetic handbra scene with Hoshi was quite fine with several who have posted, though it wasn't relevant whatsoever. As long as that's the attitude, all it will do is make future generations of women have to put up with nonsense.
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Old January 14 2014, 06:33 AM   #23
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Re: Decon blue porn. You know you want it

Maybe that's why they cut out Cumberbatch's shower scene from XII. In case it destroyed his career.
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Old January 14 2014, 06:41 AM   #24
Robbiesan
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Re: Decon blue porn. You know you want it

Everything escalates, you know it's true. So if you get your way, it's real physical sex going on in Star Trek. That's so much better, right?

How awful and disturbing this forum topic is turning out to be.
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Old January 14 2014, 06:59 AM   #25
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Re: Decon blue porn. You know you want it

So when Kirk took his shirt off all those times in the 60's it led to.. DECON CHAMBER.

Problem with that though is Kirk was waaaay sexier. Except of course that time he was in those tights like things, but I'm sure some will beg to differ.
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Old January 14 2014, 07:00 AM   #26
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Re: Decon blue porn. You know you want it

Robbiesan wrote: View Post
It wasn't that long ago that women were picked for jobs on the basis of their physical appearance, and to perpetuate that nonsense, especially on a show that supposed to be high-brow is backward thinking.

I would imagine then that the pathetic handbra scene with Hoshi was quite fine with several who have posted, though it wasn't relevant whatsoever. As long as that's the attitude, all it will do is make future generations of women have to put up with nonsense.
Are you arguing that ENT was sexist against women? Because ENT was always equal opportunity when it came to objecting it's cast members, how many times did we see Trip running around in his underwear?
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Old January 14 2014, 07:03 AM   #27
Robbiesan
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Re: Decon blue porn. You know you want it

You can't escape the slippery slope that's invoked by what pleases you on Star Trek. It's more nipples, I guess that makes it better?

And there are tons of things I've brought up that haven't been addressed...because you know that I'm right about depicted nudity particularly about it being abused regarding female nudity or sexual situations.

Let's turn that clock back and objectify women, and while we're at it, let's have more for the men as well. Equality all around, but not equality in terms of honoring their acting, but in equal time for nudity.
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Old January 14 2014, 07:04 AM   #28
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Re: Decon blue porn. You know you want it

We saw the men a lot more than the women as far as states of undress go. And it was mostly tasteful as well as hot.. sure the decon scenes were tacky but could have been done otherwise and still had them in their underwear.

A whole fanvid about the blue undies..

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Old January 14 2014, 07:09 AM   #29
Robbiesan
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Re: Decon blue porn. You know you want it

Star Trek: a show not about what it means to be noble and benevolent, humanism, science and high art, but another T and A show aiming for mass appeal.
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Old January 14 2014, 07:15 AM   #30
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Re: Decon blue porn. You know you want it

You know these things don't cancel each other out? Sexiness is not under the bed in a shoebox. It is there along with all the speeches about humanity and the stars.
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