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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old January 11 2014, 12:14 PM   #16
CommishSleer
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Re: Sfdebris lists his picks for worst Star Trek movies and Tv episode

teacake wrote: View Post
He is sooooo wrong about Threshold. And Star Trek V. And at least 2/3 of ANIS.

Really, it reads like a list of someone with no sense of humor. Pick the boring as crap ones, not the camp ones!

I agree about Code of Honor, but The Omega Glory should have been there too.
Threshold could be forgiven if it didn't have Paris abducting and making babies with Janeway. That's just so wrong. Its bad enough for B'Elanna but not poor Janeway. And thats the main reason it deserves to be bottom 5. I'm sorry.
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Old January 11 2014, 01:14 PM   #17
teacake
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Re: Sfdebris lists his picks for worst Star Trek movies and Tv episode

Don't you want Janeway to be a mother?

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Old January 11 2014, 02:14 PM   #18
CommishSleer
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Re: Sfdebris lists his picks for worst Star Trek movies and Tv episode

teacake wrote: View Post
Don't you want Janeway to be a mother?

What sane woman would want Paris to be the father of their child? B'Elanna doesn't count as she's insane and that's a part of her charm.

I mean if there are 80 guys aboard Voyager he'd be the 80th on my list behind Neelix, the traitor guy, that murdering guy and even the losers on night shift.

Don't tell me some people ship Janeway and Paris?



As for that video - it makes as much sense as the episode. And Paris' children will probably be good looking. But what if they had his personality?
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Old January 12 2014, 12:57 AM   #19
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Re: Sfdebris lists his picks for worst Star Trek movies and Tv episode

Try to watch this clip from the original series. It is so over the top. I'm giggling like a little girl watching this a second time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhQA-06kSLU
Plato's Stepchildren

That third season, they just were going through the motions. The incredulous look on McCoy's face is priceless.
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Old January 12 2014, 01:32 AM   #20
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Re: Sfdebris lists his picks for worst Star Trek movies and Tv episode

CommishSLeer you would breed with LON SUDER before Paris?!

And I thought I had a Trek pet hate..
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Old January 12 2014, 05:04 AM   #21
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Re: Sfdebris lists his picks for worst Star Trek movies and Tv episode

TFF was badly executed, as a result of Paramount being cheap. I think it would have been a much better film had it gotten TVH's budget, for example. It was still flawed - the idea that Spock had a fully Vulcan half-brother who rejected Vulcan philosophy is one of the more "out there" concepts - but there was the germ of a decent movie trying to get out.

Similarly, I think Nemesis was a much better movie on paper. It suffered from having someone directing it who wasn't a director, and glossed over the thematically important bits in favour of nonsensical action seqences.

I can't argue with the rest of that list, though I agree that "Sub Rosa" belongs on any list of poor episodes, along with "Up the Long Ladder."

And while I don't have the hate-on that many fans have for "A Night In Sickbay," I will never figure out how it managed to get a Hugo nomination.
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Old January 12 2014, 05:17 AM   #22
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Re: Sfdebris lists his picks for worst Star Trek movies and Tv episode

TorontoTrekker wrote: View Post
TFF was badly executed, as a result of Paramount being cheap. I think it would have been a much better film had it gotten TVH's budget, for example.
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home was budgeted at $24 million (and came in at $23 million) in 1986.

Star Trek V: The Final Frontier was budgeted at $30.5 million (and came in at $31.25 million) in 1989.

Adjusted for inflation (from '86 to '89 dollars), Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home would have cost $26 million (and was budgeted at $27.13).

However you slice it, Star Trek V: The Final Frontier had more money to spend than its predecessor.
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Old January 12 2014, 05:31 AM   #23
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Re: Sfdebris lists his picks for worst Star Trek movies and Tv episode

Harvey wrote: View Post
TorontoTrekker wrote: View Post
TFF was badly executed, as a result of Paramount being cheap. I think it would have been a much better film had it gotten TVH's budget, for example.
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home was budgeted at $24 million (and came in at $23 million) in 1986.

Star Trek V: The Final Frontier was budgeted at $30.5 million (and came in at $31.25 million) in 1989.

Adjusted for inflation (from '86 to '89 dollars), Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home would have cost $26 million (and was budgeted at $27.13).

However you slice it, Star Trek V: The Final Frontier had more money to spend than its predecessor.
Really? That surprises me - I'd always thought Paramount cut the budget for TFF by comparison to the previous films. Guess I should have looked up the numbers to confirm that before I posted.

But still, a lot of the shortcomings of the film could, in my mind, have been fixed with maybe one more script draft and a little looser purse strings.
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Old January 12 2014, 05:39 AM   #24
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Re: Sfdebris lists his picks for worst Star Trek movies and Tv episode

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan was the only film in the series to have a reduced budget compared to its predecessor. 3, 4, and 5 each cost more (about 42% more) than the previous film in the series. 6 was made for roughly the same budget as 5 (as a cost-cutting measure).

But, yeah, Star Trek V: The Final Frontier looks cheap to my eyes, too. It's probably mainly because of the awful visual effects, which are easily the worst of the series, but the production design has never impressed me, either. There are a couple of big sets (Nimbus III; the shuttle bay), but neither of them are very impressive (mostly, they're just dull). The rest of the movie seems to take place in barely refurbished sets from Star Trek: The Next Generation. Granted, those were refurbished from the previous films, but Shatner never put his own spin on them (Meyer, in my estimation, did better with the "submarine" look in 6, while still using the same basic sets).
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Old January 12 2014, 05:45 AM   #25
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Re: Sfdebris lists his picks for worst Star Trek movies and Tv episode

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Did they even see SubRosa? I must admit I haven't seen the whole thing. I turned it off half-way through it was so stupid. I really think thats the worst TNG episode.
I agree, "Sub Rosa" was embarrassing.

I also recall disliking TNG "The Battle," the one where Picard is hallucinating aboard the USS Stargazer. TNG Year 1 and 2 in general had plenty of bad episodes.

For the worst ST of all time, I would pick VOYAGER "The Fight." I like the series, but this episode bored me to tears. It's the one where Chakotay hallucinates that he's a boxer. Dreary.
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Old January 12 2014, 06:55 AM   #26
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Re: Sfdebris lists his picks for worst Star Trek movies and Tv episode

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
The Overlord wrote: View Post
What do you think of this list?
I don't think "A Night in Sickbay" belongs on it.

As far as that goes, neither does Star Trek V, nor (were I at all inclined to make a "worst of" list) would I put "Threshold" among the worst of the worst.
Oh yes you would. The former is a story that completely rips the hero into an insufferable and selfish twit while the latter leaves the hero a pregnant lizard.
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Old January 12 2014, 07:14 AM   #27
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Re: Sfdebris lists his picks for worst Star Trek movies and Tv episode

Other Trek clunkers that should be on this list:

TOS: Plato's Stepchildren
TNG: Sub Rosa
DS9: The Emperor's New Cloak
VOY: Elogium
ENT: These Are The Voyages
Films: INS
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Old January 12 2014, 07:30 AM   #28
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Re: Sfdebris lists his picks for worst Star Trek movies and Tv episode

Robbiesan wrote: View Post
Try to watch this clip from the original series. It is so over the top. I'm giggling like a little girl watching this a second time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhQA-06kSLU
Plato's Stepchildren

That third season, they just were going through the motions. The incredulous look on McCoy's face is priceless.
I know a lot of people are critical of Plato's Stepchildren because of this scene. Just like I have to look past the Gorn, Mugatu etc. If you look past the OTT horsey ride you can see how Kirk and Spock are suffering and that Spock is being forced to nearly kill Kirk. In the next scene Spock nearly loses it. I think its a pretty good episode for Spock. I may be the only one though.

teacake wrote: View Post
CommishSLeer you would breed with LON SUDER before Paris?!

And I thought I had a Trek pet hate..
If it was Lon Suder I'd have to choose Artificial Insemination in case I looked at him funny.

Actually I don't even dislike Paris. The big question is though who would you pick between Riker and Paris?
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Old January 12 2014, 07:36 AM   #29
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Re: Sfdebris lists his picks for worst Star Trek movies and Tv episode

"A Night in Sickbay" is the worst episode of Star Trek ever produced. It absolutely deserves the #1 spot on this list.
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Old January 12 2014, 07:57 AM   #30
Robbiesan
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Re: Sfdebris lists his picks for worst Star Trek movies and Tv episode

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
I know a lot of people are critical of Plato's Stepchildren because of this scene. Just like I have to look past the Gorn, Mugatu etc. If you look past the OTT horsey ride you can see how Kirk and Spock are suffering and that Spock is being forced to nearly kill Kirk. In the next scene Spock nearly loses it. I think its a pretty good episode for Spock. I may be the only one though.

Actually I don't even dislike Paris. The big question is though who would you pick between Riker and Paris?
Spock was such a unique character of the time period. There were few biracial characters, and because he was, I totally was into every episode. I could completely identify with him.

Still the overacting is not limited to one character. I have no idea what the director was thinking. I get the marionette-like control but honestly, how did they do their parts with a straight face at all? That dance routine by Spock is just jarring.

Riker? You mean RE-Kirk. That's what we called him way back when. It took awhile before the writers gave him any decent lines. He was a complete caricature at first.
...
You know, Patrick Stewart is a trained Shakespearean actor. When he cites "What a piece of work is man...."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irYYBx8djsU

...then he must have inwardly cringed at the writing, for it's supposed to be very ironic and hardly praiseworthy of humanity. He does preface it that way, but I doubt any thesbian of his training would ever make that mistake.

Lots of people take that quote out of context.

This wailing by the Ferengi made me deeply concerned about TNG. I thought, "Oh no. We don't have the Romulans and Klingons...but the Ferengi as a foil? Seriously?" It was so campy. Thank goodness it got better soon after.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4gtPUP5H6o
STTNG The Last Outpost

Am I the only one who thinks this episode was like the campy Batman episodes? The only thing missing is the "Pow".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EEyQIAemn0

Last edited by Robbiesan; January 12 2014 at 08:14 AM.
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