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Old January 15 2014, 06:48 PM   #1
Noddy
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"Survivors" and TNG "Legacy"

Okay, while fully realizing that the novel Survivors and the TNG episode "Legacy" were written years apart, can the histories of Tasha Yar in each be reconciled at all?
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Old January 15 2014, 08:27 PM   #2
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Re: "Survivors" and TNG "Legacy"

Noddy wrote: View Post
Okay, while fully realizing that the novel Survivors and the TNG episode "Legacy" were written years apart, can the histories of Tasha Yar in each be reconciled at all?
If it were only a matter of Tasha's history, then maybe they could be if you squinted a little and pretended that "New Paris" was an alternate name for Turkana IV, or perhaps the name of one of its cities. I'm not sure if you could reconcile Survivors's events with the existence of Ishara Yar, though.

But there's a more fundamental continuity issue, and that's with how Data is written. The thing to remember is that Data wasn't explicitly established as devoid of emotion until "The Ensigns of Command" in early season 3, although there was a suggestion of it in late season 2 ("Peak Performance," I think). The original idea behind Data, the idea that held true throughout the first season and was in effect when Survivors was written, was that he did have the capacity for emotion but that it was underdeveloped, so his feelings about things were muted and he didn't fully understand them. (We can see this onscreen in his reaction to Armus in "Skin of Evil" and his reminiscence about Tasha in "The Measure of a Man.") Data's storylines in Survivors and its sequel Metamorphosis make it quite clear that he is an emotional being, even more so than was shown onscreen. Which was entirely consistent with the show at the time the books were written, but got retconned away by the later producers' insistence on what I always considered the very silly idea of forcing Data to conform to the old cliche that robots can't feel.
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Old January 15 2014, 09:44 PM   #3
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: "Survivors" and TNG "Legacy"

^Didn't the first Cold Equations novel kinda re-retcon that with Soong telling Data that of course he had emotions of a kind all along?

I remember liking the Survivors (although why Nurse Tasha is being rescued by Christopher Pike on the cover is beyond me!). I barely remember the episode at all.
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Old January 15 2014, 11:10 PM   #4
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Re: "Survivors" and TNG "Legacy"

^But Data believed throughout most of TNG that he was emotionless, which is inconsistent with scenes in Survivors and Metamorphosis which are written from Data's point of view and show him dealing with his emotions.
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Old January 15 2014, 11:18 PM   #5
KRAD
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Re: "Survivors" and TNG "Legacy"

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I barely remember the episode at all.
Count your blessings. "Legacy" is utter crap.

From my rewatch of the episode on Tor.com:

Data being fooled by Ishara actually makes sense. He’s the most literal-minded person imaginable, and he’s never been conned before, so I have no trouble believing that Ishara would be able to play him. But Riker? Picard? Worf? It’s ridiculous that all of them would go from skeptical to accepting just on the basis of a DNA test, and trust Ishara so completely. It wouldn’t be so bad if the cynicism about the Turkanans wasn’t so blatant in the early part of the episode. Picard, Riker, and Worf all agree to play along with Hayne, but to pursue other options. Those other options are never even mentioned again, as they throw all their distrust out the window because one of them happens to be a blood relative of Yar. It’s too extreme—some degree of that would make sense, but that they do a complete 180 in trusting her just makes the main characters look like dumbasses.

The entire episode hinges on a notion that cuts off the air supply to my disbelief. This mess of a planet, one that’s been unable to figure out a workaround to a proximity detector system that’s well over fifteen years old, somehow has access to a Starfleet database that includes listings of crew members who died two-and-a-half years earlier? They must have someone who can hack Starfleet’s computers—yet they’re still stuck with the proximity detectors? Cah-mon!

And then we have the cherry on top of this absurdity: Picard just lets Ishara beam back down to Turkana IV as if nothing happened. First of all, as Riker rightly points out, there should be consequences for her attempted murder of two Starfleet officers (she fired on both Data and Riker with a phaser set to kill, though she apparently has Greedo’s marksmanship...). Secondly, and much more fundamental, though, is that they took Ishara’s implant out. By sending her back to the surface, they have just irrevocably changed the balance of power in favor of the Coalition, who now has the only operative on Turkana IV who can move freely about the colony. This same crew that has twisted itself into a pretzel to stay within the boundaries of the Prime Directive for much less compelling reasons (viz. “Pen Pals” and “Who Watches the Watchers?”) just blithely lets this happen? This is a clear and obvious Prime Directive violation, and Picard’s willing to do it just because he’s embarrassed at the way Ishara ran rings around their emotions?
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Old January 16 2014, 03:46 AM   #6
ronny
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Re: "Survivors" and TNG "Legacy"

KRAD wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I barely remember the episode at all.
Count your blessings. "Legacy" is utter crap.

From my rewatch of the episode on Tor.com:

(lots of plot holes described)
Some times you'll mention a bunch of plot holes and I'll think "all that's true but I like it anyway" like Journey to Babel but in this case you just made me realize this episode was worse than I remember which I didn't think was possible.
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Old January 16 2014, 05:57 PM   #7
Stevil2001
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Re: "Survivors" and TNG "Legacy"

I've read Survivors multiple times, but this discussion makes me realize I've never seen "Legacy." So I know which one I'd pick.
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