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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old January 7 2014, 12:37 AM   #31
StarMan
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Re: Star trek 13 villain

Smellmet wrote: View Post
anh165 wrote: View Post
Whoever the villain or threat is, I suspect the Enterprise gets destroyed in this one and possibly early on in the film.

The crew of the Enterprise having to defeat the enemy / face the threat without their ship.

The antagonist is only as significant as its impact on the protagonists.
Please no. Not after the hiding it got in the last film, I want to see it in action properly this time one of the biggest nitpicks I have with STID is the lack of a proper decent space battle, it would have been SO much better if they'd at least got off a few shots before the battering it took. Despite the high action quotient in these new films, I've feel we need a good solid battle at some point.
Seconded. I was bitterly disappointed that the combined space battle footage from the trailers was essentially all the space battle footage from the movie (save for the scene of The Vengeance sneaking up on The Enterprise at warp).

IMO the all-too-brief battle with The Borg from First Contact stands above any of the 'blink and you'll miss it' shots from STID.
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Old January 7 2014, 01:49 AM   #32
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Re: Star trek 13 villain

Even TOS movies had a habit of handicapping the Enterprise in some way on each excursion. The ship seems rarely ready to take into battle. I remember pining for a fully armed and operational starship with which to do greater things with more imagination rather than be hamstrung by the writers. The first thing writers seem to want to do is do away with the Enterprise to give the characters a greater challenge to overcome. I'd rather it not be at the expense of the ship.
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Old January 7 2014, 04:13 AM   #33
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Re: Star trek 13 villain

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
Even TOS movies had a habit of handicapping the Enterprise in some way on each excursion. The ship seems rarely ready to take into battle. I remember pining for a fully armed and operational starship with which to do greater things with more imagination rather than be hamstrung by the writers. The first thing writers seem to want to do is do away with the Enterprise to give the characters a greater challenge to overcome. I'd rather it not be at the expense of the ship.
Agree. I'd take it a step further and say that in addition to the handicap, we've twice seen the new Enterprise in 'battle', both times ridiculously outclassed by her opponent. As much as I want to love this new ship, she's been presented consistently as the weakling. For the next movie, I'd like to see more of a fair fight.
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Old January 7 2014, 09:42 AM   #34
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Re: Star trek 13 villain

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
JWPlatt wrote: View Post
Even TOS movies had a habit of handicapping the Enterprise in some way on each excursion. The ship seems rarely ready to take into battle. I remember pining for a fully armed and operational starship with which to do greater things with more imagination rather than be hamstrung by the writers. The first thing writers seem to want to do is do away with the Enterprise to give the characters a greater challenge to overcome. I'd rather it not be at the expense of the ship.
Agree. I'd take it a step further and say that in addition to the handicap, we've twice seen the new Enterprise in 'battle', both times ridiculously outclassed by her opponent. As much as I want to love this new ship, she's been presented consistently as the weakling. For the next movie, I'd like to see more of a fair fight.
I'm not against this but I personally don't want to see extended CGI fights or views of the ship. I think that's more a Star Wars thing. Not that I don't enjoy it in Star Wars.

But its the actions/interplay of the combatents, the danger that interests me. Not so much the CGI.
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Old January 7 2014, 10:00 AM   #35
Smellmet
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Re: Star trek 13 villain

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post
JWPlatt wrote: View Post
Even TOS movies had a habit of handicapping the Enterprise in some way on each excursion. The ship seems rarely ready to take into battle. I remember pining for a fully armed and operational starship with which to do greater things with more imagination rather than be hamstrung by the writers. The first thing writers seem to want to do is do away with the Enterprise to give the characters a greater challenge to overcome. I'd rather it not be at the expense of the ship.
Agree. I'd take it a step further and say that in addition to the handicap, we've twice seen the new Enterprise in 'battle', both times ridiculously outclassed by her opponent. As much as I want to love this new ship, she's been presented consistently as the weakling. For the next movie, I'd like to see more of a fair fight.
I'm not against this but I personally don't want to see extended CGI fights or views of the ship. I think that's more a Star Wars thing. Not that I don't enjoy it in Star Wars.

But its the actions/interplay of the combatents, the danger that interests me. Not so much the CGI.
I see what you're saying, but to many people, and I'm one of them, the Enterprise is one of the main characters, and I want to see her in action every bit as much as Kirk or Spock. Apart from a couple of 'money shots' one of which was directly lifted from the last film, I feel that the action involving the big E was lacking in STID, as one poster just commented it was 'blink and you'll miss it' - I want to see Kirk involved in a decent starship confrontation, like TWOK, FC or Nemesis, wether it's a cat and mouse 'naval' type battle or a full on fleet battle with the Klingons, it's what I've craved from the Trek movies in 30 years of watching but it's only been briefly delivered in those 3 aforementioned films.
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Old January 7 2014, 10:10 AM   #36
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Re: Star trek 13 villain

I like what we saw in TWOK, FC and NEM, but please not the length of time we had to admire the ship in TMP.
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Old January 7 2014, 11:54 AM   #37
2takesfrakes
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Re: Star trek 13 villain

This would be a cool time to introduce Sybok, again! He could bring the focus back to the destroyed Vulcan, having been exhiled from there. He uses another starship, the Yorktown, let's say, to find Sha Ka Ree. Now, armed with The Almighty on his side, Sybok seeks out his brother to witness - and participate - in "the greatest adventure of all time." But ENTERPRISE has orders to destroy Yorktown, if necessary, leaving Spock's torn between two brothers ... and an epic Wrath of Khan type battle ensues!
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Old January 7 2014, 12:18 PM   #38
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Re: Star trek 13 villain

Smellmet wrote: View Post
anh165 wrote: View Post
Whoever the villain or threat is, I suspect the Enterprise gets destroyed in this one and possibly early on in the film.

The crew of the Enterprise having to defeat the enemy / face the threat without their ship.

The antagonist is only as significant as its impact on the protagonists.
Please no. Not after the hiding it got in the last film, I want to see it in action properly this time one of the biggest nitpicks I have with STID is the lack of a proper decent space battle, it would have been SO much better if they'd at least got off a few shots before the battering it took. Despite the high action quotient in these new films, I've feel we need a good solid battle at some point.

The idea of the crew shooting Klingon/Romulan/<insert baddie of the week> ships in the comfort of their ship has been done many times and its rather anti-climatic.

If we place the crew in a situation where they no longer have a ship, their challenge is greater (grief and tactical disadvantage of the loss of the Enterprise) and allows scope for much better characterisation and story telling.

In fact, it doesn't need to be total destruction, the ship could just go missing and the crew finds her at the end and saves the day.
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Old January 7 2014, 12:23 PM   #39
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Re: Star trek 13 villain

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
JWPlatt wrote: View Post
Even TOS movies had a habit of handicapping the Enterprise in some way on each excursion. The ship seems rarely ready to take into battle. I remember pining for a fully armed and operational starship with which to do greater things with more imagination rather than be hamstrung by the writers. The first thing writers seem to want to do is do away with the Enterprise to give the characters a greater challenge to overcome. I'd rather it not be at the expense of the ship.
Agree. I'd take it a step further and say that in addition to the handicap, we've twice seen the new Enterprise in 'battle', both times ridiculously outclassed by her opponent. As much as I want to love this new ship, she's been presented consistently as the weakling. For the next movie, I'd like to see more of a fair fight.
A "fair fight" has no drama or tension, it's like watching a "friendly" game of soccer.

No where in the history of Trek movies has the Enterprise had any upper hand or an even keel. Even if in TWOK, the Enterprise was tactically weakened, it gives the chance for Kirk and Spock to show how good they are in a difficult situation.
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Old January 7 2014, 02:44 PM   #40
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Re: Star trek 13 villain

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
I like what we saw in TWOK, FC and NEM, but please not the length of time we had to admire the ship in TMP.
That's fine by me, times have moved on, despite that being one of my all-time favorite scenes
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Old January 7 2014, 02:48 PM   #41
Smellmet
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Re: Star trek 13 villain

anh165 wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post
JWPlatt wrote: View Post
Even TOS movies had a habit of handicapping the Enterprise in some way on each excursion. The ship seems rarely ready to take into battle. I remember pining for a fully armed and operational starship with which to do greater things with more imagination rather than be hamstrung by the writers. The first thing writers seem to want to do is do away with the Enterprise to give the characters a greater challenge to overcome. I'd rather it not be at the expense of the ship.
Agree. I'd take it a step further and say that in addition to the handicap, we've twice seen the new Enterprise in 'battle', both times ridiculously outclassed by her opponent. As much as I want to love this new ship, she's been presented consistently as the weakling. For the next movie, I'd like to see more of a fair fight.
A "fair fight" has no drama or tension, it's like watching a "friendly" game of soccer.

No where in the history of Trek movies has the Enterprise had any upper hand or an even keel. Even if in TWOK, the Enterprise was tactically weakened, it gives the chance for Kirk and Spock to show how good they are in a difficult situation.
Disagree, I'd love to see a decent fight between the Enterprise and a comparable Klingon cruiser, where Kirks cunning and tactical abilities come into play, instead of them fighting a ridiculous black ship the size of the death star and they save the day in some implausible last minute way.

This next movie needs Kirk to be awesome...
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Old January 7 2014, 04:17 PM   #42
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Star trek 13 villain

No Borg, no Klingons, no Q. I want an original antagonist.

Personally I'd like to see Kirk go up against a female adversary. One who was intelligent, cunning, decisive and ruthless, without being in a catsuit, leather, or a tubetop.
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Old January 7 2014, 04:32 PM   #43
USS Triumphant
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Re: Star trek 13 villain

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Personally I'd like to see Kirk go up against a female adversary. One who was intelligent, cunning, decisive and ruthless, without being in a catsuit, leather, or a tubetop.
But what if she likes wearing tubetops?

And what I'm getting at is that, while I'm aware that T'Pol and 7 of 9 were a bit extreme, it is hard to win with this situation even if one is trying. If she's sexy at all, you're catering to sexism, but if she's not, you're saying that pretty women can't be intelligent.

I'd like to see a well-written female adversary, with whatever attributes fit into that writing - whether she's an ugly, stupid, deceitful psychopath who is a successful villain because she is rampantly destructive in a way that 23rd century sensibilities just aren't ready for, or if she's a rather plain-looking strategic genius who wears too much makeup badly and talks like a valley girl a lot because it amuses her and her crew of alien mercenaries doesn't know the difference anyway, or whatever - so long as there is a consistent character concept that makes sense in every way that it is expressed. The biggest problem with 7 and T'Pol wasn't that they were sexy or wearing catsuits - it was that some of the elements of the attire and makeup were inconsistent with the cold logic of the Vulcan philosophy or of the Borg "upbringing" that were central to the characters, otherwise.

(Not to mention that Vulcan attire as depicted on Enterprise was inconsistent with what little we previously knew of Vulcan couture, but I digress....)
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Old January 7 2014, 05:17 PM   #44
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Re: Star trek 13 villain

Since they remade TWOK last time, I say JJIII should have Edward James Olmos as Kruge, and yes, blowing up the Enterprise will be required...
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Old January 7 2014, 06:18 PM   #45
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Re: Star trek 13 villain

Borgified Klingons.
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