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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

View Poll Results: Nemesis
Excellent 3 1.60%
Good 31 16.58%
Average 48 25.67%
Bad 49 26.20%
Terrible 56 29.95%
Voters: 187. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 4 2014, 08:47 PM   #61
Shaka Zulu
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Perhaps Nemesis' worst legacy is that its failure drove Tom Hardy into a downward spiral of addiction and depression that nearly killed him.
Tosk wrote: View Post
Hardy was an abuser since age 16.
Timby wrote: View Post
And he had been in trouble with the law since 13.
Nevertheless, this movie's failure (it being his real big first thing) contributed to his addiction and made it worse, so much so that he considers Nemesis to be an Old Shame and won't even talk about it.
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Old January 5 2014, 03:19 AM   #62
Hober Mallow
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Four years after "Insurrection" and all they could think of was an evil twin story. And the b-story? Okay... um... Data gets a twin, too. Yeah, that's the ticket.
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Old January 5 2014, 04:48 AM   #63
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Nemesis plain sucked.

Addicts are really good at conjuring up excuses for their addictions while not holding themselves accountable.

That is all.
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Old January 5 2014, 11:04 AM   #64
2takesfrakes
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

M'rk, son of Mogh wrote: View Post
This is almost all just superficial nitpicking ...

Often times, sure, the complaints are justified, but sometimes (and I'm not directing this at you, 2takes) it seems some fans are just saying "This isn't exactly how I like my movies ..." and it comes across as a bit juvenile and selfish.
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Old January 5 2014, 11:13 AM   #65
Lance
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
Nevertheless, this movie's failure (it being his real big first thing) contributed to his addiction and made it worse, so much so that he considers Nemesis to be an Old Shame and won't even talk about it.
To be entirely fair, if I had anything to do with Star Trek: Nemesis I'd probably feel pretty ashamed about it too.
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Old January 5 2014, 01:05 PM   #66
Jeyl
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

M'rk, son of Mogh wrote: View Post
Often times, sure, the complaints are justified, but sometimes (and I'm not directing this at you, 2takes) it seems some fans are just saying "This isn't exactly how I like my movies and they should have made it to please only me!" and it comes across as a bit juvenile and selfish.
Juvenile and selfish? You've got a directer who cannot pronounce his actors' names right and a producer who thinks that this family friendly franchise can actually benefit from having a three way mind rape of one of it's female characters. A three way rape scene... in a Star Trek movie...
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Old January 5 2014, 01:52 PM   #67
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

I don't see how rape is worse than murder? Why shouldn't fictional characters be put to the test by their fictional enemies? And definitions of family-friendly may vary. Star Trek always had spikes of extreme violence and gore here and there.

My problem with the rape scene was that it was utterly pointless to the story, and the execution was extremely cringe-worthy.
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Old January 5 2014, 02:41 PM   #68
Darkwing
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

It felt to me that the whole point of the rape scene was the "Chekov's Gun" set-up for that oh-so-kewel scene where Troi holds Worf's hand and guides the phaser-mouse thingy to shoot at Shinzon. Meh!
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Old January 5 2014, 04:15 PM   #69
BillJ
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Jeyl wrote: View Post
A three way rape scene... in a Star Trek movie...
Which is somehow more outrageous than a two-way rape scene which we've seen in Star Trek episodes? Namely "Violations".
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Old January 5 2014, 05:14 PM   #70
USS Triumphant
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Which is somehow more outrageous than a two-way rape scene which we've seen in Star Trek episodes? Namely "Violations".
No one is saying that one was okay, either. And the problem with rape in Trek isn't that it has been there at all - Trek has tackled some mature and uncomfortable themes before, and some of those have been when it has been at its BEST.

The problem is the ham-fisted way rape, specifically, has been dealt with - like the scenes and their aftermath were written by a 12 year old boy with only the most rudimentary understanding of how SEX works, much less rape. And then the episodic nature of the series means that we are almost guaranteed to never see any of the long-term effects on those involved, because next episode the reset button is hit and everything is hunky-dory until that episode's conflict begins.
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Old January 6 2014, 02:14 AM   #71
sonak
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

I don't get the big outcry about the mind-rape scene in NEM. TUC had a scene where Valeris was violated mentally and THAT was by a main character.
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Old January 6 2014, 02:21 AM   #72
USS Triumphant
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

sonak wrote: View Post
I don't get the big outcry about the mind-rape scene in NEM. TUC had a scene where Valeris was violated mentally and THAT was by a main character.
Sure. And there's been NO controversy on this board about THAT at all, has there?

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Old January 6 2014, 03:10 AM   #73
Wereghost
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Why is Nemesis unpopular?

In my opinion, it's because - all things considered - it's distinctly mediocre and pedestrian. It has good bits (Data's sacrifice and Geordi's poignant reaction, the car chase, the... other stuff, probably) but these are balanced out by some obvious mistakes (the B-4 cop-out subplot, the predictable and overlong wrecking of the Enterprise, the lack of resemblance between Picard and his clone, etc). There were probably three other movies out that month that were equally good without being remarkable.

I've never been in less doubt about marking a movie than about marking Nemesis. It's right in the middle.
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Old January 6 2014, 06:58 AM   #74
jimbotron
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Bad editing - A lot of good character moments were left on the cutting room floor, while the movie focused way too much on action, leaving little of what made TNG good.
Dune buggy scene - stupid. TNG Picard >>>> Action Movie Picard.
Rick Berman
Everyone outside of Picard and Data had almost nothing to do, AGAIN.
Uninterested director - Stuart Baird just did it for the paycheck, and it shows. There's random ignorance throughout, such as changing Worf's voice to make him "more alien." Nick Meyer didn't care much about Trek, but he cared about telling a good story.
Cheap - Remember the awesome Stellar Cartography set in Generations? Well, now it's just a screen on a wall in Nemesis.
Ignorant of canon - They find another Soong-type android and don't even mention Lore's name or ask if it's Lore? Uh huh. Oh, and Wesley is apparently in Starfleet again.
Retread story - Bad guy wants revenge, has a weapon that will kill millions, blah blah blah.

Though to be honest, I'm not much of a fan of any of the TNG movies. Even First Contact.

Last edited by jimbotron; January 6 2014 at 07:14 AM.
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Old January 6 2014, 07:56 AM   #75
Dukhat
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Mr Light wrote: View Post
I've been doing a bit of a Trek marathon lately and I just finished watching Nemesis. As like I remembered, this is a solid movie and I don't understand why it's so reviled!

It's got a great story with amazing action scenes in it. The opening dirt jeep chase is a nice bit of rare on-location Trek action that looks great. The space battle between the Ent-E and the Scimitar is absolutely amazing. I had forgotten two Romulan Warbirds joined the fight at one point. And when the Ent-E rams the ship like that? Or how about Picard flying a shuttle INSIDE the enemy ship? It's great stuff!

Shinzon is a good idea for a villain. An evil clone of Picard from the Romulans. And he's played by Tom Hardy! It's nice to finally use the Romulans as the main villain in a movie, though it is unfortunate that they decided to invent the Remen race to do it.

My only complaints about this film:
--Worf has nothing to do, like every other movie. This always confuses me as I thought Worf was a very popular character. Why are the movies the Picard and Data Show?
--The middle section of the movie is pretty slow. But the last hour is non-stop action so I guess that makes up for it.
--I could have done without the B4 blatant character backup of Data introduced in the same movie as his death.

But this was a good movie with a good sense of closure to the franchise. You have Riker and Troi marrying and leaving the ship and Data dying... it felt like an ending.

Obviously it bombed hard at the box office because it came out in the same period as Harry Potter 2, Die Another Day, and Two Towers.

I'm going to tell you what I usually tell people who bring this topic up: I'm really glad that you liked the movie and got something out of it. However, I and the majority of people on this board will agree that it's a poor film that makes very little sense once you really analyze it. Most of the issues have been covered by other posters, so I won't repeat them.

But I will say this: The dune buggy scene was at the request of Patrick Stewart, who apparently likes racing cars. The thing is, the character of Jean-Luc Picard had no interest whatsoever in fast cars. He was a genteel space explorer, not Mario Andretti. So Patrick Stewart is actually playing Patrick Stewart in that scene, not Jean-Luc Picard. This is what happens when the film's actors have creative control over the film.
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