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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

View Poll Results: Nemesis
Excellent 3 1.60%
Good 31 16.58%
Average 48 25.67%
Bad 49 26.20%
Terrible 56 29.95%
Voters: 187. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 9 2014, 01:44 PM   #271
AgentCoop
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

I'm sorry, I love The Undiscovered Country as much as anyone, but I can't really see how it's not The Kirk, Spock & McCoy Show. Sulu gets a little more screentime than usual, but it's still pretty much the Big Three.
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Old February 9 2014, 08:43 PM   #272
Lucky
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

I thought it was pretty good. It is my second favorite of the TNG films.
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Old February 10 2014, 12:31 AM   #273
The Old Mixer
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Lucky wrote: View Post
It is my second favorite of the TNG films.
Even so, that's damning it with faint praise.
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Old February 10 2014, 01:14 PM   #274
sovereign
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

It shouldn't be. It was not the best Trek film, but I think it was better than the last two movies. Many Star Trek fans are content to agree with what is popular with the mainstream. Honestly, if we got a better TNG finale would we really care?
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Old February 11 2014, 06:53 AM   #275
Nebusj
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

USS Firefly wrote: View Post
That's one of the reason why Undiscovered Country was a good movie because everyone has his moment to shine
Mind, everybody gets not just a chance to be the hero but also to have a comic scene to themselves in The Final Frontier but its status as a good movie is still somewhat controversial.
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Old February 12 2014, 03:37 PM   #276
mendelin
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

I’m trying to understand, why people thought "Nemesis" was the last TNG-movie. Was it an official Paramount statement before premiere?

"Undiscovered Country" was indeed the last TOS-movie due to the death of Roddenberry. (but "Generations" is all messed up)

And what about "Nemesis"? Was there any evidence that "Nemesis" intended to be final chord of 24th century Star Trek story?
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Old February 12 2014, 04:01 PM   #277
gottacook
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

mendelin wrote: View Post
I’m trying to understand, why people thought "Nemesis" was the last TNG-movie. Was it an official Paramount statement before premiere?
What about the advertising (including pre-release) tag line, "A Generation's Final Journey Begins"? Which is stupid and incoherent, admittedly, but does include the word "Final."
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Old February 12 2014, 04:08 PM   #278
mendelin
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

gottacook wrote: View Post
What about the advertising (including pre-release) tag line, "A Generation's Final Journey Begins"? Which is stupid and incoherent, admittedly, but does include the word "Final."
"A Generation's Final Journey Begins" - it sounds like the first part of an epic trilogy!
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Old February 12 2014, 04:39 PM   #279
AgentCoop
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

^I'd have to agree with this. I think they were hedging their bets. There are clearly parts of Nemesis that plant seeds for possible future films. I think they were trying to make a movie that could serve as a finale if it did poorly, but that they could make a sequel to if it did well.
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Old February 12 2014, 06:17 PM   #280
Greg Cox
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

mendelin wrote: View Post
"Undiscovered Country" was indeed the last TOS-movie due to the death of Roddenberry. (but "Generations" is all messed up)
Ending the TOS movies had nothing to do with Roddenberry's death. He hadn't been in charge of the movies for nearly a decade at that point, so it wasn't like they couldn't make TOS movies without him.

More likely, it was simply Paramount's recognition that the original crew was not getting any younger, and TNG was a proven hit, so it was probably time to start thinking about TNG movies . . . .
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Old February 12 2014, 06:29 PM   #281
Khan 2.0
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

More likely, it was simply Paramount's recognition that the original crew was not getting any younger, TNG was a proven hit, so it was probably time to start thinking about TNG movies . . . .
pity they made VI so final, if not they couldve done a VII and then had the crossover movie for the 30th anniversary (with TNG cast either taking a break for a couple of years or doing another 2 seasons instead of DS9/VOY)
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Old February 12 2014, 07:11 PM   #282
gottacook
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

With respect to how much value to give "Begins" in the Nemesis advertising: I think in retrospect that it doesn't mean very much, because we've already been told

"The Human Adventure Is Just Beginning" (TMP)

"At the End of the Universe Lies the Beginning of Vengeance" (TWoK)

"The Battle for Paradise Has Begun" (INS)

Those are all from memory; I may have missed others.
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Old February 13 2014, 12:12 AM   #283
TheGoodStuff
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Lucky wrote: View Post
It is my second favorite of the TNG films.
Even so, that's damning it with faint praise.


Indeed, that's like saying "this is my second favourite wound".

Nemesis is watchable and I adore Trek so I can enjoy it. It is, however, an abysmal movie. Utterly utterly awful. LIST TIME!

1. A Picard clone? Seriously?

2. B4? When we are told Data and Lore were the two Androids Soong built. Its such a lame plot device and a frankly cowardly way to side-step ACTUALLY killing Data.

3. Remans? Funny how we never heard of them. Oh they are slaves? Well ok but....wait they just slaughtered the senate and managed to build a super-doom-ship-of-death? Did the Tal Shiar have a day off or something!?

4. The Rape. This outright offends me. It is pointless, uncomfortable and just completely out of tone. In the special features the director mentions how he wanted to do a second rape scene in the turbo-lift. He can go fuck himself. Its creepy and just not cool. It serves no purpose other than to give Riker SOMETHING to do.

5. Shinzon is a dumbass. Seriously. He is an oppressed slave with a death-boat....so he immediately attacks his masters enemies. He also needs Picard's blood to survive....so he attacks the Enterprise with huge force. He also wants to destroy the Earth and the Federation....for some unknown reason.

6. The deleted scenes are better than any that were in the actual movie.

The movie is just a poorly written, terribly directed, disjointed mess. It would have been far easier to fix the plot than blunder through with the mess they crapped out.
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Old February 13 2014, 12:39 AM   #284
TREK_GOD_1
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Mr Light wrote: View Post
Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?
You are kidding, right?

Obviously it bombed hard at the box office because it came out in the same period as Harry Potter 2, Die Another Day, and Two Towers.
Being a piss poor film had everything to do with its failure. As an example, in 1982, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan was a major hit (which saved the ST film series), and was released on June 4 of that summer, surrounded by hits Rocky III (May 28), Poltergeist (June 4), & E.T. (June 11), but that did not stop ST2 from being one of the standout films of the year.

The point being, if the film is great, it will perform no matter the competition. Nemesis was self-indulgent crap, the TNG had worn out their welcome, and the few who cared enough to see the film were slapped by a shameless, copy+paste ripoff of TWOK. There's no mystery about the failure of Nemesis.
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Old February 13 2014, 04:31 AM   #285
Lord Garth, FOI
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Cause it sucked??
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