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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old January 1 2014, 04:43 PM   #31
BillJ
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Re: Season 1 is underrated, and better than season 7

CrazyMatt wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
... not only would I agree it's better than season seven, I'd even argue it's better than season six.
Yikes!

THE RIDDLER: Riddle me this Caped Crusaders: what do these Season Six TNG episodes have in common?

"Relics"
"True Q"
"A Fistful of Datas"
"Chain of Command, Parts I and II"
"Ship in a Bottle"
"Face of the Enemy"
"Tapestry"
"Starship Mine"
"Frame of Mind"
"Rightful Heir"
"Timescape"

ROBIN: That's easy... they're all much better episodes than ANY episode from Season One!

BATMAN: That's right, old chum.
I find everyone of the episodes you listed incredibly dull. That was TNG's biggest issue, the longer it ran the duller it got.

I'll take seasons one and two over what came later any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
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Old January 1 2014, 09:13 PM   #32
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Re: Season 1 is underrated, and better than season 7

Could you elaborate on why those sixth season episodes are not as good as what the first season brought to the table? For example, narrowing it down to Q, what is it that makes "Encounter at Farpoint" and "Hide and Q" better than "True Q" and "Tapestry"?
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Old January 1 2014, 09:25 PM   #33
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Re: Season 1 is underrated, and better than season 7

"True Q" isn't a great episode, but I think "Tapestry" is one of the best things ever done with Q.

"Hide and Q" is a mess which bumbles its moral message and goes for a Riker/Q dynamic that doesn't work. The Picard/Q scenes in the episode are terrific, but the rest of it is a meandering mess.
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Old January 2 2014, 12:14 AM   #34
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Re: Season 1 is underrated, and better than season 7

TNG season one tried too much to be like the original series (which I love) for my tastes and it pretty much failed to do so. It's one reason why I find season one a chore to sit through. It really wasn't until season 3 (and somewhat season 2) that they found their own voice. I much prefer seasons 3-6 over the first two. Season seven while now great had more higher quality episodes than season 1.
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Old January 2 2014, 12:18 AM   #35
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Re: Season 1 is underrated, and better than season 7

I think the moment they first stepped on their new holodeck was one of my favourite things to witness in the season. I remember being 9 and thinking, oh my god, they are on a space ship, they are up there in space, and all of a sudden you go inside this artificial environment that makes all these trees, bushes, lakes and stuff. I don't even remember which episode it was, but I was so thrilled and though they should get such on actual spaceships, cause they felt so cold and metallic and lonesome up there.
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Old January 2 2014, 03:35 AM   #36
Hober Mallow
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Re: Season 1 is underrated, and better than season 7

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Could you elaborate on why those sixth season episodes are not as good as what the first season brought to the table? For example, narrowing it down to Q, what is it that makes "Encounter at Farpoint" and "Hide and Q" better than "True Q" and "Tapestry"?
Season six is interesting in that it has both the best Q episode -- "Tapestry" -- and the worst Q episode -- "True Q." "True Q" is truly awful.

As far as season seven goes, aside from "Lower Decks," "All Good Things," and maybe "Parallels," I honestly don't care if I ever see another season seven episode.
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Old January 2 2014, 03:40 AM   #37
Harvey
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Re: Season 1 is underrated, and better than season 7

No love for "Pegasus?"
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Old January 2 2014, 04:42 AM   #38
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Re: Season 1 is underrated, and better than season 7

The Old Building & Loan wrote: View Post
I'll second the heresy.
Me too. Season one is far from great, but as a 'shakedown cruise' it's pretty good (particularly if you blot the 'Wesley saves the day' moments from your memory. Which does obviously involve a liberal use of SHADO amnesia drugs). There's half a dozen genuinely strong episodes in there (and, while people are right about it being a failed attempt to do the original series, at the time it seemed like a surprisingly successful attempt to continue the original series. But maybe I'd just watched a bit too much of season three in the BBC's last rerun, having finally forced myself to stick with them so I'd have seen every episode).
Whereas season seven is the start of the Voyager ratio: half a dozen truly great, startling episodes, but they were the only reason you stayed tuned for the 20-odd bits of production line soap with added technobabble.
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Old January 2 2014, 04:42 AM   #39
Lance
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Re: Season 1 is underrated, and better than season 7

BillJ wrote: View Post
I find everyone of the episodes you listed incredibly dull. That was TNG's biggest issue, the longer it ran the duller it got.
The thing which struck me even on first viewing is how relatively lifeless "Ship In A Bottle" felt compared to "Elementary, Dear Data". Even with the same guest star, and with numerous callbacks to the earlier episode, it felt like "Ship In A Bottle" came from a completely different series... a much, much less interesting one.
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Old January 2 2014, 05:11 AM   #40
Harvey
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Re: Season 1 is underrated, and better than season 7

I always thought that image of the book evaporating when Picard throws it out the doorway was pretty memorable. That, and the scene where Barclay nearly breaks the fourth wall at the end. But, I'm rather fond of stories with reality vs. illusion themes.

"Elementary, Dear Data" is certainly a memorable early episode, but the last time I saw it I felt like the climax was thoroughly rushed. It has better music, though.
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Old January 2 2014, 06:49 AM   #41
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Re: Season 1 is underrated, and better than season 7

BillJ wrote: View Post
I'll take seasons one and two over what came later any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I repeat, Y I K E S !!!!!!
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Old January 2 2014, 12:33 PM   #42
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Re: Season 1 is underrated, and better than season 7

diankra wrote: View Post
The Old Building & Loan wrote: View Post
I'll second the heresy.
Me too. Season one is far from great, but as a 'shakedown cruise' it's pretty good (particularly if you blot the 'Wesley saves the day' moments from your memory. Which does obviously involve a liberal use of SHADO amnesia drugs). There's half a dozen genuinely strong episodes in there (and, while people are right about it being a failed attempt to do the original series, at the time it seemed like a surprisingly successful attempt to continue the original series. But maybe I'd just watched a bit too much of season three in the BBC's last rerun, having finally forced myself to stick with them so I'd have seen every episode).
Whereas season seven is the start of the Voyager ratio: half a dozen truly great, startling episodes, but they were the only reason you stayed tuned for the 20-odd bits of production line soap with added technobabble.
I think you misunderstood. I was seconding this post (reference to heresy bolded by me):

CrazyMatt wrote: View Post
Seasons One and Seven were similar only in their unevenness. Quality wise, Season Seven's best episodes ("The Pegasus," "Lower Decks," "Preemptive Strike," "All Good Things") are miles above the best episodes of Season One ("The Big Goodbye," "Conspiracy" and "11001001").

Conversely, while Season Seven had a number of forgettable episodes, none approached the banality of Season One dogs like "Code Of Honor," "Justice" and "Symbiosis."

Why?

Now for some heresy!

Let's be honest... a major reason for this is the comparative involvement of Gene Roddenberry, who was simultaneously Star Trek's greatest asset and greatest liability, as he had been since he first pitched TOS in the early 60's. Unfortunately by the 80s, the balance had swung well towards the liability side.

Season One was the product of GR's utopian dreams run amok... a bevy of heavy "message" stories that did little to entertain the audience in the process. This "GR Utopia Syndrome" would dog TNG until he began to step back from day-to-day production, allowing the fruits of labors from Michael Piller, Ira Behr (albeit briefly), Ron Moore, et al. to carry the show to greater heights than could be imagined based on what we saw during Season One.
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Old January 2 2014, 09:02 PM   #43
jimbotron
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Re: Season 1 is underrated, and better than season 7

CrazyMatt wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I'll take seasons one and two over what came later any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I repeat, Y I K E S !!!!!!
The spirit of Roddenberry resides in him.
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Old January 4 2014, 02:25 AM   #44
Hober Mallow
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Re: Season 1 is underrated, and better than season 7

CrazyMatt wrote: View Post
Season One was the product of GR's utopian dreams run amok... a bevy of heavy "message" stories that did little to entertain the audience in the process. This "GR Utopia Syndrome" would dog TNG until he began to step back from day-to-day production, allowing the fruits of labors from Michael Piller, Ira Behr (albeit briefly), Ron Moore, et al. to carry the show to greater heights than could be imagined based on what we saw during Season One.
I totally agree with all that, and yet... even the worst episodes of the first couple seasons possess a youthful exuberance. That energy is all but gone by season seven.
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Old January 4 2014, 04:27 AM   #45
jimbotron
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Re: Season 1 is underrated, and better than season 7

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I totally agree with all that, and yet... even the worst episodes of the first couple seasons possess a youthful exuberance. That energy is all but gone by season seven.
Much of that I would point towards the music. Seasons 1-2 contained melodies, punchy synthesizer music, and more dramatic scoring. McCarthy and Jones seemed to have no limits until Berman had his say. By season 5 and beyond, the music became filler, as did some episodes themselves, especially in the final season. From seasons 5-7, there was only one episode with notable music. Seasons 1-4? Plenty.
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