RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,383
Posts: 5,357,507
Members: 24,626
Currently online: 615
Newest member: suryaprabu02

TrekToday headlines

The Gene Roddenberry Project Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Moore: No Deep Space Nine Regrets
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Pegg Star Wars Rumor
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Borg Cube Fridge
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Free Enterprise Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Siddig To Join Game Of Thrones
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Sci-Fried To Release New Album
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek into Darkness Soundtrack
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Horse 1, Shatner 0
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 30 2013, 05:38 AM   #16
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Berman-era v. TOS Pacing: What do you think?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
The pacing has never bothered me in any of the Treks, to be honest.

I think slow pace can be a positive, if the early scenes at the beginning are used to make the situation more interesting and set the stage for a greater payoff later. For example, Twilight Zone had some incredibly slow pacing much of the time, but it used the beginnings of episodes to forbode the ending and give it more of a kick. That's a better way to structure a television show than just action action action all the way through.

Trek has had more strong moments when it's taken the time to set the stage and build the mystery. All the episodes I can think of that did strike me as slow in Trek were just bad episodes in general, not episodes that could have been better with more explosions.
Faster pacing does not necessarily equal "action action action" or "more explosions." You can have faster-paced dialogue scenes (just watch any screwball comedy) or you can simply get to the point of each scene faster and more briskly. It's about energy, not just action.

Examples: Compare "Relics" and "Trial and Tribble-ations" to Voyager's "Flashback." All three episodes were meant to be sentimental tributes to TOS, but the first two are much better paced. "Relics" and "Tribble-ations" waste no time getting to the good stuff; Scotty returns and the DS9 crew time-travels back to the 23rd century in the pre-credits teasers, but, as I recall, you have to sit through endless exposition and technobabble about Tuvok's medical condition before "Flashback" finally gets around to revisiting Sulu and the Excelsior--which was kinda the whole point of that particular episode!

"Cutting to the chase" doesn't mean you have to literally throw in a chase scene. It just means get on with the story already!

And it's worth noting that the best Twilight Zone episodes were only thirty minutes long. When they experimented with hour-long episodes during the fourth season, the episodes suffered and the show wisely went back to half-hour episodes in the fifth season.
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com

Last edited by Greg Cox; December 30 2013 at 05:51 AM.
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 30 2013, 05:45 AM   #17
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: Berman-era v. TOS Pacing: What do you think?

I think that TOS is the fastest-paced of the Trek television series. Even with action-centric episodes, TNG could seem pretty slow. Although not surprisingly, TNG seasons 1 and 2, the most "TOS-like" were the fastest-paced to me. I'd say DS9 and VOY were pretty similar in pacing to TNG.
__________________
"why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?"
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 30 2013, 12:32 PM   #18
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Berman-era v. TOS Pacing: What do you think?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
All the episodes I can think of that did strike me as slow in Trek were just bad episodes in general, not episodes that could have been better with more explosions.
What TOS has going for it is likeable characters. Even in the worst episodes I kept watching and enjoying their interactions. TNG's bland and unrelatable group of characters couldn't carry a bad story.

I think Voyager is the only other Trek that managed to keep ones attention during poor stories (sometimes, at least), with Janeway, Seven and the Doctor's banter.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 31 2013, 12:02 AM   #19
scotpens
Vice Admiral
 
scotpens's Avatar
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Berman-era v. TOS Pacing: What do you think?

plynch wrote: View Post
I will definitely see you on Galileo 7 and I will add Immunity Syndrome, just so I don't seem so biased. Empath, which I really like, maybe too.
I'll add "Plato's Stepchildren," "That Which Survives" and "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield," all of which have redundant and superfluous scenes and could easily have been tightened to fit a half-hour format.
__________________
“All the universe or nothingness. Which shall it be, Passworthy? Which shall it be?”
scotpens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 31 2013, 01:09 AM   #20
The Old Mixer
Vice Admiral
 
The Old Mixer's Avatar
 
Location: Connecticut
Re: Berman-era v. TOS Pacing: What do you think?

I'm not one for making lists, but since others have given some examples, throw in "The Alternative Factor" and "The Lights of Zetar" (OTTOMH).
__________________
50 years ago on July 6: A Hard Day's Night premieres in London.
The Old Mixer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 31 2013, 01:18 AM   #21
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: Berman-era v. TOS Pacing: What do you think?

"The Alternative Factor" is certainly padded; what would have been an awful 30 minute episode becomes interminable as an hour-long installment.

I'd have to think (and re-watch) a bit to come up with more examples.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 31 2013, 03:20 AM   #22
plynch
Commodore
 
plynch's Avatar
 
Location: Outer Graceland
View plynch's Twitter Profile
Re: Berman-era v. TOS Pacing: What do you think?

No Sanity Clause wrote: View Post
plynch wrote: View Post
I will definitely see you on Galileo 7 and I will add Immunity Syndrome, just so I don't seem so biased. Empath, which I really like, maybe too.
I'll add "Plato's Stepchildren," "That Which Survives" and "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield," all of which have redundant and superfluous scenes and could easily have been tightened to fit a half-hour format.
HOW COULD I forget "That Which Survives," my least fave evah? Yup.
__________________
Author of Live Like Louis! Inspirational Stories from the Life of Louis Armstrong, http://livelikelouis.com
plynch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 31 2013, 04:59 AM   #23
JirinPanthosa
Commodore
 
Re: Berman-era v. TOS Pacing: What do you think?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
What TOS has going for it is likeable characters. Even in the worst episodes I kept watching and enjoying their interactions. TNG's bland and unrelatable group of characters couldn't carry a bad story.
I never found TNG's characters bland and unrelateable. But I agree Shatner and Nimoy could carry the show when the writing was bad. I just think Stewart and Spiner could too.

Flashback was just a bad episode, I don't think pacing was the problem. The story doesn't necessarily need to be moving forward all the time, so long as something interesting is going on. Sometimes taking the time to breathe and explore the characters makes the payoff better, and I think TOS is a good example of this. A lot of TOS episodes start by just beaming down to a planet where people are behaving oddly, and they build enough mystery so when it becomes clear what's going on, it hits you a lot harder.
JirinPanthosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 31 2013, 11:40 AM   #24
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Berman-era v. TOS Pacing: What do you think?

plynch wrote: View Post
HOW COULD I forget "That Which Survives," my least fave evah? Yup.
I'm always gonna have a soft spot for that episode - despite being a fan my whole life I'd somehow never seen it and had no clue it existed until I got the whole series on DVD a few years ago. It was so cool to see a "new" episode after so long!
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 31 2013, 12:40 PM   #25
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Berman-era v. TOS Pacing: What do you think?

I have always found TNG pacing slow, much slower than than DS9, VOY or ENT.

TOS now.. is nice and snappy
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 31 2013, 02:28 PM   #26
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Berman-era v. TOS Pacing: What do you think?

teacake wrote: View Post
I have always found TNG pacing slow, much slower than than DS9, VOY or ENT.

TOS now.. is nice and snappy
Maybe it's because I'm a TOS enthusiast, but I'm never bored watching it. I can really get into some episodes of the Berman-era series, but I find the bad ones simply unwatchable.
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 31 2013, 04:26 PM   #27
PicardSpeedo
Lieutenant Commander
 
PicardSpeedo's Avatar
 
Re: Berman-era v. TOS Pacing: What do you think?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Forget TNG. DS9 is the droid you're looking for. The high technical quality of TNG mixed with interesting characters, great on screen chemistry and excellent stories.


The TNG cast had the greatest chemistry behind the scenes, but that never translated to the screen.
I still think DS9 would have been better with Mister T as Sisko.
PicardSpeedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 31 2013, 06:58 PM   #28
Nightdiamond
Fleet Captain
 
Nightdiamond's Avatar
 
Location: California
Re: Berman-era v. TOS Pacing: What do you think?

Depending on the episode, one thing I liked about TOS's pacing was the sci fi talk.

They took more time to get deep into the sci fi aspect of a situation instead of just using techno-babble.

Spectre Of the Gun- the scene Spock is explaining to everyone what happened to Chekov--it's a good example.
Nightdiamond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 31 2013, 07:13 PM   #29
PicardSpeedo
Lieutenant Commander
 
PicardSpeedo's Avatar
 
Re: Berman-era v. TOS Pacing: What do you think?

Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
Depending on the episode, one thing I liked about TOS's pacing was the sci fi talk.

They took more time to get deep into the sci fi aspect of a situation instead of just using techno-babble.

Spectre Of the Gun- the scene Spock is explaining to everyone what happened to Chekov--it's a good example.
"Spock's Brain" is considered by many to be the pinnacle of TOS, and one of the finest pieces of American television cinema ever made. It is truly unfortunate that "Tuvok's Genitals," the planned sequel, never got the traction it needed with the studio to be produced.
PicardSpeedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 31 2013, 09:47 PM   #30
Ronald Held
Rear Admiral
 
Location: On the USS Sovereign
Re: Berman-era v. TOS Pacing: What do you think?

It seemed that technobabble was created in the TNG series and stayed through Voyager.
Ronald Held is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:40 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.