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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old January 5 2014, 11:56 PM   #1
Komack
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Impact of the Death of the Borg Queen

Having just watched Star Trek: First Contact with my family, my inquisitive 10 year old son has a question - when the Borg Queen died, did the Borg throughout the universe also die (or just the ones on the Borg ship)?

Thanks.
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Old January 6 2014, 01:08 AM   #2
Harvey
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Re: Impact of the Death of the Borg Queen

Just the ones on the ship. (Since the interplexing beacon wasn't ever finished, there's no way the Borg in the Delta Quadrant could have even known about what happened on Earth).
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Old January 6 2014, 01:10 AM   #3
Pondwater
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Re: Impact of the Death of the Borg Queen

Just the one on the ship. As she reappeared three times on Voyager.
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Old January 6 2014, 01:57 AM   #4
JarodRussell
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Re: Impact of the Death of the Borg Queen

Voyager fucked it up. When I left the theater in 1996, I was absolutely certain that Jean-Luc Picard had destroyed the 24th century Borg collective in a feature film.
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Old January 6 2014, 07:12 AM   #5
jimbotron
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Re: Impact of the Death of the Borg Queen

After exploiting a major weakness in the Borg in BOBW, it made sense for the Borg to adapt by creating a leader that can direct the collective and protect it from exploits like that. But then First Contact establishes that there was always a queen and she was on the cube in BOBW, which makes zero sense

I find it hard to believe that the queen would have fallen for the "sleep" trick, since she directs the collective herself, and is not just another drone. Plus she was basically what Locutus was meant to be, a voice to speak for the Borg.
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Old January 7 2014, 01:27 AM   #6
RyanKCR
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Re: Impact of the Death of the Borg Queen

I always thought the Borg Queen was the collective's consciousness focused on a single drone. When that drone(queen) is destroyed the consciousness moves to another drone.
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Old January 7 2014, 01:37 AM   #7
Mr Light
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Re: Impact of the Death of the Borg Queen

I just read a bunch of TNG novels about this and the Collective chooses a new Queen out of a random drone. But the Queen herself is not the true commanding force of the Collective, just the mouth piece. The Destiny Trilogy (which is really, really excellent) reveals the true secret behind the Borg and their origin.
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Old January 7 2014, 01:41 AM   #8
urbandefault
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Re: Impact of the Death of the Borg Queen

Does every hive (cube) have a queen? It's not inconceivable. Maybe the queens are linked together as one. The interchangeable "I" and "we" used in the movie could suggest something like that. It would explain the queen being in both the Alpha and Delta quadrants, and the difference in appearance.

I really have no idea, just skipping rocks across the pond.
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Old January 7 2014, 03:40 AM   #9
CorporalClegg
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Re: Impact of the Death of the Borg Queen

urbandefault wrote: View Post
Does every hive (cube) have a queen? It's not inconceivable. Maybe the queens are linked together as one. The interchangeable "I" and "we" used in the movie could suggest something like that. It would explain the queen being in both the Alpha and Delta quadrants, and the difference in appearance.

I really have no idea, just skipping rocks across the pond.
I think there's just one queen.

In fact the queen "herself" is probably just a virtual manifestation that resides somewhere within the confines of the collective. It can inhabit whatever body within the whole of the collective that it needs to in order to complete an objective.

Conceptually, the "queen" is just a more mainstream adaptation of what Locutus was--Piller's answer to a glaring writing conundrum created with Hurley's original concept.

The Borg were portrayed as mindless automata, yet they displayed clear evidence of some underlying conscious agenda inflated by hubris.

While, the "Q Who?" Borg were fine as a one-off, they needed to be rebuilt (re-assimilated) into something more mainstream otherwise they would have just become a convoluted existential mess and way too high-concept for a standard TV (and especially movie-going) audience.

Using Stewart as that "face" probably seemed like the best idea at the time. Moving forward, had he not stayed with the show, they could have at least brought him in as a recurring villain, perhaps. But once they'd moved on from that, they probably figured they may as will just go with the more obvious Queen.

She also makes a lot more sense from a dramatic standpoint.

I'm a huge nuTrek Borg proponent, but I think they would be hard to pull off without the queen, unless Orci is content with space tech-zombies. That would be fine too, but would be a huge detour in tone, scope, and theme from the first two.

But I do agree there's much, much room for improvement.
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Old January 7 2014, 10:05 AM   #10
Kronos
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Re: Impact of the Death of the Borg Queen

jimbotron wrote: View Post
After exploiting a major weakness in the Borg in BOBW, it made sense for the Borg to adapt by creating a leader that can direct the collective and protect it from exploits like that. But then First Contact establishes that there was always a queen and she was on the cube in BOBW, which makes zero sense

I find it hard to believe that the queen would have fallen for the "sleep" trick, since she directs the collective herself, and is not just another drone. Plus she was basically what Locutus was meant to be, a voice to speak for the Borg.
Exactly, it's a bad retcon to imply she was there at Earth, unless she jumped ship before they got to earth.

Of course First Contact wasn't very good once one got past the action part.
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Old January 7 2014, 05:07 PM   #11
starburst
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Re: Impact of the Death of the Borg Queen

I always thought it would have been better to have had the Queen be more like a Locutus 2.0 - make her an Enterprise crew member or a known guest character (Shelby perhaps) that was captured and Assimilated during the battle to Earth.

The later could better explain them randomly deciding to time travel at the last moment... Outside the box (Cube) thinking.
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Old January 8 2014, 01:11 AM   #12
Shat Happens
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Re: Impact of the Death of the Borg Queen

I don't like FC. That script pǝʞɔnɟ up the Borg for good.

The "Q Who" Borg were something. I can agree it would be difficult to write with an enemy so powerful, but come on, a "collective mind" (previously established) and then they come with a f***ing QUEEN? how in space that makes any sense?

The Data subplot had to be hammered there just because of Spiner's star(trek)power and it shows. But in The Best of Both Worlds Locutus stated androids were "obsolete" for the Borg. Now the Queen wants to -- I dont know what she wants to do with Data.

Finally (and this I dislike less), Zepham Cochrane. He looks and sounds and effects the story absolutely nothing like the TOS character. Why have him at all? Why he is so cute as to be the inventor of warp, the FC-er with the Vulcans and to be given eternal life (with the Companion) -- and a 30-foot statue.
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Old January 8 2014, 01:36 AM   #13
2takesfrakes
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Re: Impact of the Death of the Borg Queen

What the hell with that idiotic cap they put on Cochrane? Is that supposed to be some hip Fashion Statement? He is 62 in this feature, or whatever. Are we meant to be laughing at him? I don't really understand that. And when he insists on blasting poor Deanna's ears with his moldy butt-rocker SOUND MACHINE CD, it seemed so tacked on, like they kept pushing the "humour" to get us to "like" him, or whatever. Why they made him Comic Relief, I don't know. I can only surmise it's to give Lilly the job of having dramatic stuff to do. All of the ideas are there, some aspects just don't play as well as they should have, or should've been set up differently. Like, it would've been cool to have the Borg Queen be something new to the collective. Perhaps even as a direct result of Locutus, maybe the Borg would've seen some usefulness in having someone like that being the focal point of their hive mind. But, no ... they come right out and say it, that the Queen's always been and we the fans are only finding out about this, now. Wow ... don't I feel foolish ... I mean, of course, what else would a Hive Mind have, but a Queen!
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Old January 8 2014, 02:58 AM   #14
austen_pierce
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Re: Impact of the Death of the Borg Queen

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Voyager fucked it up. When I left the theater in 1996, I was absolutely certain that Jean-Luc Picard had destroyed the 24th century Borg collective in a feature film.

THIS
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Old January 8 2014, 03:00 AM   #15
Mr Light
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Re: Impact of the Death of the Borg Queen

I never thought for a second that was the final defeat of the Borg, personally...
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