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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old December 14 2013, 03:55 PM   #1
Lance
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Was Kruge... 'misunderstood'?

Yes, he's a badass. And yes, he's utterly ruthless with it. Make no bones about it, he crosses the line multiple times, clearly indicating a lack of basic decent morality...

... or at least, a lack of human morality. But are his actions justifiable in a Klingon context? Let's look at events from his point-of-view: he mentions unerringly throughout the movie that his motivation is to explore the possibilities of the Federation's new "weapon", this so-called 'Project Genesis'. He's blinded by this mission statement. He believes it completely, perhaps to the point of being unable to see/accept any possibility that it was designed with a more benign purpose. He is clear within his own mind that Starfleet is developing biological weapons of mass destruction for use against the Klingon Empire, and having convinced himself of this 'fact', he feels no shame is taking pre-emptive action to try and uncover the 'secret'. Up to and including many dishonorable things, like taking hostages and murdering them.

Undoubtedly he is also blinded by the power that Genesis could bring him. If not as a physical weapon for his own personal use, then (surely) in terms of the noteriety it would give him back on the homeworld. Having uncovered and single-handedly stopped the Federations "secret" plans to apparently annihilate the Klingon Empire with this Genesis weapon. I can see him spinning this, to the point where honor is granted to him, the High Council makes him the Chancellor, he's inducted into the Great Hall Of Warriors, etc etc etc.

So. Kruge is the baddie. He's a bad guy. But... in his own mind... was he doing the right thing all along?
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Old December 14 2013, 04:29 PM   #2
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Re: Was Kruge... 'misunderstood'?

I love STAR TREK III: The Search for Spock.

Let me just come out and say that, right up front, it's my favourite movie in this franchise. However, it is not without it's flaws, many - perhaps most - of them having to do with Kruge, himself. He seems very self-destructive and this becomes a common theme with him.

For starters, he kills his very lovely, statuesque lover for looking at Kirk's report. When Kruge watches it, himself, we find that the report is unrevealing, though he doesn't actually say so. The report offers no coordinates to the Genesis Planet, no indication of how it was arrived at ... Nothing worth killing his piece of crumpet over, surely. Oopsie!

Kruge only has a dozen officers and men on his ship - total - kills one of them and seems only too prepared to kill another out of irritation. Just how efficient are Klingons supposed to be that their workload can accomodate killing officers left and right?

Kruge takes hostages, which according to STAR TREK II, never happens and what does he start doing? He hangs himself, whilst being handed the keys to the kingdom. Having Genesis scientists in his grasp, he starts killing them off, just to prove to Kirk that he's serious about wanting Genesis.

Then, despite his Number One's protests, Kruge sends him and the other ten members of his crew to go kick 400 people's asses on Enterprise and make it surrender. Oh, dear ... Kruge does seem to have a self-destructive streak in him, does he not? Who needs Kirk to defeat him?

Finally, Kruge fulfills his deathwish by beaming down to the exploding planet and beaming Kirk's crew up to his Bird of Prey, with the Night Court prosecutor on guard. So, yeah ... Kruge's misunderstood. He's not the greatest STAR TREK villian, ever ...
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Old December 14 2013, 04:34 PM   #3
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Re: Was Kruge... 'misunderstood'?

Olmos-as-Kruge* wouldn't have done that.

He would have just fixed Saavik and David with The Stare and said

"I'm getting my Genesis".

*yes, that was the plan, originally.
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Old December 14 2013, 04:57 PM   #4
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Re: Was Kruge... 'misunderstood'?

You make some excellent points about Kruge's self-destructive behavior, some of which had not previously occurred to me. But...
2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
The report offers no coordinates to the Genesis Planet, no indication of how it was arrived at ... Nothing worth killing his piece of crumpet over, surely. Oopsie!
I think, both in 2 and 3, that literary license is taken with the Genesis video with Kirk, and we're supposed to assume that more technical data is associated with it than we are shown (at least in part because while it might be known in the 23rd century, no one knew how to build a Genesis device when TWOK was filmed ;-) ). And if anything, I find this *easier* to believe as time goes on - the idea that the video contains embedded data that is being fed to another screen while the video plays, or hyperlinked information, or any of several other ways of associating the data that I have been exposed to since getting on the internet, or any of many others we will come up with between now and the 23rd century.
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Old December 14 2013, 11:43 PM   #5
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Re: Was Kruge... 'misunderstood'?

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Then, despite his Number One's protests, Kruge sends him and the other ten members of his crew to go kick 400 people's asses on Enterprise and make it surrender.
I thought it was just a handful of people on the Enterprise loyal to Kirk?
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Old December 14 2013, 11:44 PM   #6
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Re: Was Kruge... 'misunderstood'?

Sam_I_Am wrote: View Post
2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Then, despite his Number One's protests, Kruge sends him and the other ten members of his crew to go kick 400 people's asses on Enterprise and make it surrender.
I thought it was just a handful of people on the Enterprise loyal to Kirk?
But the Klingons didn't know that. They had no reason to suspect that there were only five people aboard the Enterprise.
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Old December 15 2013, 12:36 AM   #7
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Re: Was Kruge... 'misunderstood'?

BillJ wrote: View Post
But the Klingons didn't know that. They had no reason to suspect that there were only five people aboard the Enterprise.
I assume you mean *aside* from the sensor readings that would have been in the clear with the shields down?
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Old December 15 2013, 12:47 AM   #8
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Re: Was Kruge... 'misunderstood'?

USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
But the Klingons didn't know that. They had no reason to suspect that there were only five people aboard the Enterprise.
I assume you mean *aside* from the sensor readings that would have been in the clear with the shields down?
Perhaps Klingon sensors aren't as sophisticated as Starfleet's?
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Old December 15 2013, 12:56 AM   #9
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Re: Was Kruge... 'misunderstood'?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Perhaps Klingon sensors aren't as sophisticated as Starfleet's?
Or Harvey simply chose to take the magical God device out of the equation.

Good on him.
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Old December 15 2013, 01:09 AM   #10
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Re: Was Kruge... 'misunderstood'?

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Perhaps Klingon sensors aren't as sophisticated as Starfleet's?
Or Harvey simply chose to take the magical God device out of the equation.

Good on him.
Agreed. Kirk and Company also didn't know how many Klingons were aboard Kruge's ship, just Sulu's guesstimate of about a "dozen officers and men".

Magic sensors that could pick up feces on a fleas' ass were one of the things about Star Trek that got incredibly tiresome and sucked the drama out of it.
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Old December 15 2013, 03:25 AM   #11
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Re: Was Kruge... 'misunderstood'?

BillJ wrote: View Post
USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
But the Klingons didn't know that. They had no reason to suspect that there were only five people aboard the Enterprise.
I assume you mean *aside* from the sensor readings that would have been in the clear with the shields down?
Perhaps Klingon sensors aren't as sophisticated as Starfleet's?
I can't remember an on-screen example, but in the novels at least there have been comments over the years that Klingon technology other than weapons but including things like sensors haven't been quite up to par with the Federation.

The Federation goes exploring so need powerful sensors that can provide detailed information. Klingons just want to know the weaknesses in order to blow something up.
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Old December 15 2013, 05:06 AM   #12
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Re: Was Kruge... 'misunderstood'?

BillJ wrote: View Post
USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
But the Klingons didn't know that. They had no reason to suspect that there were only five people aboard the Enterprise.
I assume you mean *aside* from the sensor readings that would have been in the clear with the shields down?
Perhaps Klingon sensors aren't as sophisticated as Starfleet's?
To spoil USS Triumphant's joke, after Commander Reverend Jim orders boarding the ship with every last man, his underling protests that ``they outnumber us,'' and Jim doesn't call him an idiot for that.

I wonder if maybe Kruge was actually understood perfectly but it turns out he was just a jerk.
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Old December 15 2013, 05:14 AM   #13
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Re: Was Kruge... 'misunderstood'?

I did think Kruge killing his wife seemed like, well, overkill. Did he not trust her? Could he not have taken her into protective custody until his mission was complete?
Of course, Kruge was a kill happy psychopath, but he did seem a little sad at killing his wife, but only a little.
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Old December 15 2013, 06:46 AM   #14
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Re: Was Kruge... 'misunderstood'?

USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
But the Klingons didn't know that. They had no reason to suspect that there were only five people aboard the Enterprise.
I assume you mean *aside* from the sensor readings that would have been in the clear with the shields down?
Kruge: "Take every last man, form a boarding party armed heavily."

1st Officer: "They outnumber us my lor-"

Kruge: "We are Klingons!"

Sounds like they were operating on the assumption that the Enterprise had a full crew aboard to me.
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Old December 15 2013, 11:22 PM   #15
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Re: Was Kruge... 'misunderstood'?

I believe on my STAR TREK III extras, Harve Bennett basically says that "there were very few modifications" to the script. I'm not so sure that Kruge was well-served by that remark, if it were the reality. Kruge is cool and we know this, because he's got a cool ship, a cool dog, he's played by a cool actor, his make-up's cool, he kicks James T. Kirk's ass and has a really cool death scene! But Nimoy's complained time and again in interviews, how the studio put all of this pressure on him, during the making of this movie. I think if he had been under less pressure and time constraints, he might've had a Kruge whose defeat wasn't so assured, to begin with. One who was cool all the way around the block, not just up front.
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