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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old December 27 2013, 04:49 PM   #1
Bad Thoughts
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Creepy Bajoran Men

I rewatched the Circle trilogy last night, which cemented an opinion that I had been forming: that Bajoran men are generally creepy. These episodes had three great character, whom are either dead or disgraced by the end. Jaro was good as the corrupt politician, and Krim had room to develop as the principled but misguided general. And Li was awesome as the uncertain man who had leadership qualities within him--actually very well played by Beymer. On the other hand, Bareil's behavior was becoming strange, and taken out of context, he looks like a stalker. He was good only in ITHOTP. I never thought much of Shakaar, and while Mora and Solbor were interesting and sympathetic, they lacked heroic qualities. Compared to Kai Winn, there was not male Bajoran, good or evil, to really make Bajoran politics meaningful in the late seasons.
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Old December 27 2013, 05:00 PM   #2
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

Um. Mora and Solbor were never intended to be heroic characters.

I agree that Bareil's portrayal was a bit odd. I wonder how much of that was the actor's choices and how much responsibility falls elsewhere.

Krim gets some play in the novels. I won't spoil anything here except to say that I think he redeems himself quite well.
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Old December 28 2013, 02:47 AM   #3
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

Only one person on your list is characterized as creepy in any way. Being a corrupt politician or a principled but misguided general or an awesome uncertain leader or a scientist or an old Ranjin doesn't really scream "creepy" to me.

But yeah, Bareil definitely had an odd vibe to him sometimes.
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Old December 28 2013, 02:50 AM   #4
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

Bareil was a little creepy. But I wouldn't say that all Bajoran men were creepy.
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Old December 28 2013, 02:56 AM   #5
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

I never got the sense that Krim or Li or even Bareil were ever creepy. Day, perhaps. But then again, Day was just a stereotypical jackass.

(Side note: Solbor was just supposed to be some sort of one-off character, but TPTB liked James Otis so much that they made the role more important.)
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Old December 28 2013, 03:11 AM   #6
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

By far the creepiest Bajoran male was Anjohl Tennan.
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Old December 28 2013, 04:02 AM   #7
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

Does he really count though?
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Old December 28 2013, 04:25 AM   #8
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

To clarify: I was saying that Li, Krim and Jaro were the only Bajoran men who seemed to be men of stature. Once they were gone, we were left with Bareil, Shakar, Mora and Solbor (both more introverted, scholar types), and random former resistance members. Some of them were obviously designed to play a specific role in the story, and like Solbor (whose name I take during Halloween), they might be well performed. Nonetheless, there doesn't seem to have been much of an effort to write strong male Bajorans who might take a leading role in DS9's grand narrative. Shouldn't we be surprised that it was Winn who negotiated with Weyoun?
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Old December 28 2013, 04:34 AM   #9
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

Pel the Yeshiva Ferengi wrote: View Post
there doesn't seem to have been much of an effort to write strong male Bajorans who might take a leading role in DS9's grand narrative.
Which equals creepy how?
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Old December 28 2013, 04:44 AM   #10
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

It's not in itself creepy, except that there was a need for strong characters that was filled instead with men who were either introverted, devious, or who lacked presence.
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Old December 28 2013, 05:19 AM   #11
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

Wait, why should it be strange for Winn to negotiate with Weyoun? As Kai she was the spiritual leader of Bajor and there was apparently at least some connection between the Vedek Assembly and the Bajoran government. It could be that as Kai she would have an important role in negotiating with foreign governments (remember Bareil was on a diplomatic mission to the Cardassians when he died).
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Old December 28 2013, 05:36 AM   #12
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

Kestrel wrote: View Post
Wait, why should it be strange for Winn to negotiate with Weyoun? As Kai she was the spiritual leader of Bajor and there was apparently at least some connection between the Vedek Assembly and the Bajoran government. It could be that as Kai she would have an important role in negotiating with foreign governments (remember Bareil was on a diplomatic mission to the Cardassians when he died).
As a religious leader, it might make sense that she would provide an opening for negotiations to take place, perhaps that she might be involved on some level. Ultimately, it's the leaders of governments who hammer out the details of treaties, something that Winn admitted was outside her purview.
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Old December 28 2013, 06:24 AM   #13
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

I don't really understand this perceived need. Why do you feel there was a need for such characters? Do you feel certain stories fell flat due to their lack?
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Old December 28 2013, 09:09 AM   #14
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

Tosk wrote: View Post
Does he really count though?
Well, we are counting Humans pretending to be Bajorans so a Human pretending to be Cardassian who is pretending to be Bajoran should be okay.
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Old December 28 2013, 11:39 AM   #15
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

I think the race can seem overly passive and navel gazing so when you have a more definitive adjective such as creepy it stands out.
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