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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: Grade "The Time Of The Doctor"
Geronimo! 64 30.48%
Fish Fingers and Custard 84 40.00%
Average 36 17.14%
Not Good 21 10.00%
Beans are evil. Bad bad beans! | 5 2.38%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 24 2014, 08:48 PM   #451
davejames
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Photoman15 wrote: View Post
Why would he want to seal the crack. First, it was the only thing keeping the bad guys at bay. Second, it was a passage to Gallifrey and (eventually, probably) their way back, something the Doctor does want, but not under these conditions.
Well wasn't the only reason the bad guys came to Trenzalore is because they got called there by the crack in time? And wanted to destroy the Time Lords the second they emerged to prevent another Time War?

Seems logical that if you were able to seal the crack (or simply even relocate it), the threat would be gone and the alien armies would have no reason to stick around anymore.
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Old January 24 2014, 08:52 PM   #452
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

davejames wrote: View Post

Well wasn't the only reason the bad guys came to Trenzalore is because they got called there by the crack in time? And wanted to destroy the Time Lords the second they emerged to prevent another Time War?

Seems logical that if you were able to seal the crack (or simply even relocate it), the threat would be gone and the alien armies would have no reason to stick around anymore.
Well, until this point it was assumed that the Time Lords were completely destroyed. Even by sealing the crack, they would still exist on the other side. There's always the chance they could break through somehow, possibly somewhere else.
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Old January 24 2014, 08:56 PM   #453
Tom
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Photoman15 wrote: View Post
DWF wrote: View Post
It was vastly disappointing and it overturned events in The Name Of The Doctor and yet again it was Clara who really saved the day in the end. And I hope that once the Doctor leaves the planet that the Daleks don't destroy it out of spite.
I don't know if you got an edited version, but the one I saw, the Doctor destroyed all the Daleks in orbit around Trenzalore
All we see is him blow up is one ship, a couple attack craft, and the Daleks on the ground. How could he have blown up the other Dalek mother ships when we see him focus the energy into one beam? How is that going to hit Dalek ships that are not orbiting over that particular spot? The whole thing makes no sense, there are other Dalek ships and/or more on the way.

So maybe the Daleks see the crack is not there anymore, they would still blowup the planet in fear of the crack returning, they are Daleks after all!

Also, if the Timelords could seal the crack, or even move it like they did in space to give the Doctor his new cycle. Why could they have not have sealed the crack earlier to instead of having the Doctor stay there for centuries?? Maybe because the Daleks would still blow the planet up in fear of it returning?.. Well aren't they going to do that now anyways that the Doctor has left the planet?

Also, when the Doctor did get his Tardis after 300 years, Why not just resettle population somewhere else? If he wanted to save lives he had the ability to get them all out of harms way and didn't. Why not?

Makes no sense, just some sloppy writing.
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Old January 24 2014, 09:04 PM   #454
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Sounds more like sloppy viewing(from many).
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Old January 24 2014, 09:07 PM   #455
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Photoman15 wrote: View Post
Sounds more like sloppy viewing(from many).
Can you explain those plot holes then?
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Old January 24 2014, 09:19 PM   #456
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

The Mighty Monkey of Mim wrote: View Post
What other options were open to him?
Isn't that rather the point of the Doctor? To FIND the options that we, mere mortals, couldn't see? Couldn't create?

Isn't that rather the point of any hero in a dramatic story? To do something in a situation that seems completely hopeless?

We just saw that in Day of the Doctor. Three Doctors thought the situation was hopeless, they had no other option other than destroying Gallifrey, YET, they figured something out?

And, personally, it would have been a great story to see the Doctor try and find a way out, where everyone lives, but keeps failing and failing. Thereby learning: I'm fucked. I'm gonna die here. This is really my last battle.

But, what we got was, "Oh, this is Trenzalore? Ah, well. Alright, I'll just fix toys and keep killing other aliens until I die."

That's not the Doctor.


And you don't think that in the hundreds of years he was there, he tried to think of other solutions? I take it as a given that he had tried, and that there weren't any.
It would have been good to see something. Or, in the device of this episode, hear about it in a voice over.


I'm sure there will be plenty of other media that expounds upon what happened in the centuries he spent on Trenzalore, but the episode (rightly IMO) is really only focused on the beginning and the end of it.
I don't follow the other media, I'm not interested in the other media. I like my stories to have beginnings, ends and MIDDLES.

Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
They explained the Kovarian Sect's plan in The Impossible Astronaut already.
They needed a space suit for River to kill the Doctor with.
A space faring race had to manipulate all of man kind to get a spacesuit? Seriously? A space faring race couldn't just, you know, grab one off the rack?

It makes a great image coming out of the lake. It truly does. However, if it ONLY has to be A spacesuit, then, why not something from their own technology? If it has to be an Apollo spacesuit, WHY?

Wibbly wobbly, they are Aliens, we can't understand their thinking, are poor excuses.
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Old January 24 2014, 09:23 PM   #457
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Tom wrote: View Post
Photoman15 wrote: View Post
Sounds more like sloppy viewing(from many).
Can you explain those plot holes then?
Like the fact that the Daleks were massing forces 600 years before he regenerated not right before he regenerated.
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Old January 24 2014, 09:59 PM   #458
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post

A space faring race had to manipulate all of man kind to get a spacesuit? Seriously? A space faring race couldn't just, you know, grab one off the rack?

It makes a great image coming out of the lake. It truly does. However, if it ONLY has to be A spacesuit, then, why not something from their own technology? If it has to be an Apollo spacesuit, WHY?

Wibbly wobbly, they are Aliens, we can't understand their thinking, are poor excuses.
So, what you wanted was a retcon then, where that story didn't happen or conradict Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon?
The suit wasn't entirely human tech, it consisted of scavenged tech of several alien civilizations as well.
Why they couldn't bring one from the future, I cannot tell you.
It might also not have been the last we've seen from them.
The Kovarian Silence broke away originally from the Papal Mainframe because of the Trenzalore situation, but they were probably the black sheep in the order anyway and started their own conquering schemes and might even had plans to extend their occupation way into the far future to turn their sect into the dominant force in the galaxy while they were at it anyway....
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Old January 24 2014, 10:32 PM   #459
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post

A space faring race had to manipulate all of man kind to get a spacesuit? Seriously? A space faring race couldn't just, you know, grab one off the rack?

It makes a great image coming out of the lake. It truly does. However, if it ONLY has to be A spacesuit, then, why not something from their own technology? If it has to be an Apollo spacesuit, WHY?

Wibbly wobbly, they are Aliens, we can't understand their thinking, are poor excuses.
So, what you wanted was a retcon then, where that story didn't happen or conradict Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon?
Where did you get that from my post? What I want is a satisfying explanation to the story.


The suit wasn't entirely human tech, it consisted of scavenged tech of several alien civilizations as well.
If that's the case--which I don't remember--why does a space traveling, time traveling species need to scavenge anything?

Why they couldn't bring one from the future, I cannot tell you.
Which is my point. You can't. Because the ending we got doesn't really address the story we saw. Moffat had a great and fantastic startling image, but then when it comes to address why that image has to be that image... he's got nothing. Imagine if the image and the explanation worked together. It would've been fantastic.

It might also not have been the last we've seen from them.
But, it's the last we were seeing of 11. And that was a big part of an ongoing arc of this Doctor. While we might see the Silence again, I suspect they aren't going to address this story anymore.


The Kovarian Silence broke away originally from the Papal Mainframe because of the Trenzalore situation, but they were probably the black sheep in the order anyway and started their own conquering schemes and might even had plans to extend their occupation way into the far future to turn their sect into the dominant force in the galaxy while they were at it anyway....
Probably, maybe, why not just end it with wobbly wobbly while you are at it...
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Old January 24 2014, 11:01 PM   #460
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

The Silence turned out to be very stupid villains, they destroyed the TARDIS causing the time cracks in the first place. Then they somehow go back in time and take control of earth sometime in the past. And it was one of the cracks on Trenzalore that attracked them and the church to the planet in first place. In the end they created a paradox that the problems in the first place and failed both times.

It was odd for Handles to translate a Gallifreyan signal that the TARDIS should've been able to translate being of Gallifreyan origin itself. And since the Doctor died on Trenzalore in the first the signal should've still been there in The Name Of The Doctor. I thought it was odd that the Doctor didn't know he was at Trenzalore at the start of the ep.

And yes the Doctor had some 900 years to come up a better solution and with his TARDIS he couldn't come up with a better plan. And who set up the truth field?
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Old January 24 2014, 11:05 PM   #461
davejames
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Yeah, much as I loved Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon, the actual explanations behind all the Silence and spacesuit stuff didn't exactly make a ton of sense.
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Old January 25 2014, 12:04 AM   #462
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Tom wrote: View Post
Also, if the Timelords could seal the crack, or even move it like they did in space to give the Doctor his new cycle. Why could they have not have sealed the crack earlier to instead of having the Doctor stay there for centuries??
Because until Clara spoke to them, they didn't know the Doctor was there or that it was even the right universe.

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
A space faring race had to manipulate all of man kind to get a spacesuit? Seriously? A space faring race couldn't just, you know, grab one off the rack?

It makes a great image coming out of the lake. It truly does. However, if it ONLY has to be A spacesuit, then, why not something from their own technology? If it has to be an Apollo spacesuit, WHY?

Wibbly wobbly, they are Aliens, we can't understand their thinking, are poor excuses.
davejames wrote: View Post
Yeah, much as I loved Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon, the actual explanations behind all the Silence and spacesuit stuff didn't exactly make a ton of sense.
I actually completely agree with this, and always thought that aspect of "The Impossible Astronaut"/"Day Of The Moon" was downright silly. But that's a problem with that story, not this one. I'm glad they didn't clutter up this episode with attempts to "explain" stuff like that, which is just never going to make any sense. I say better to leave it at timey-wimey. Don't dig the hole deeper.

The Kovarian sect tried to stop the Doctor reaching Trenzalore by creating a fixed point in time where he died at Lake Silencio on April 10th, 2010. The plan for creating this fixed point involved a lot of very convoluted and seemingly-improbable machinations. The plan failed. There may also have been other prior/subsequent/concurrent plans as well. They all failed, and ironically the results of one of them (blowing up the TARDIS) actually led to the very situation that they were seeking to prevent in the first place. It seems clear enough to me.
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Old January 25 2014, 12:35 AM   #463
Alidar Jarok
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post

A space faring race had to manipulate all of man kind to get a spacesuit? Seriously? A space faring race couldn't just, you know, grab one off the rack?

It makes a great image coming out of the lake. It truly does. However, if it ONLY has to be A spacesuit, then, why not something from their own technology? If it has to be an Apollo spacesuit, WHY?

Wibbly wobbly, they are Aliens, we can't understand their thinking, are poor excuses.
So, what you wanted was a retcon then, where that story didn't happen or conradict Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon?
The suit wasn't entirely human tech, it consisted of scavenged tech of several alien civilizations as well.
Why they couldn't bring one from the future, I cannot tell you.
It might also not have been the last we've seen from them.
The Kovarian Silence broke away originally from the Papal Mainframe because of the Trenzalore situation, but they were probably the black sheep in the order anyway and started their own conquering schemes and might even had plans to extend their occupation way into the far future to turn their sect into the dominant force in the galaxy while they were at it anyway....
Do we know when the battle on Trenzalore took place? Can the Silence definitely time travel?
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Old January 25 2014, 12:40 AM   #464
DWF
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post

A space faring race had to manipulate all of man kind to get a spacesuit? Seriously? A space faring race couldn't just, you know, grab one off the rack?

It makes a great image coming out of the lake. It truly does. However, if it ONLY has to be A spacesuit, then, why not something from their own technology? If it has to be an Apollo spacesuit, WHY?

Wibbly wobbly, they are Aliens, we can't understand their thinking, are poor excuses.
So, what you wanted was a retcon then, where that story didn't happen or conradict Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon?
The suit wasn't entirely human tech, it consisted of scavenged tech of several alien civilizations as well.
Why they couldn't bring one from the future, I cannot tell you.
It might also not have been the last we've seen from them.
The Kovarian Silence broke away originally from the Papal Mainframe because of the Trenzalore situation, but they were probably the black sheep in the order anyway and started their own conquering schemes and might even had plans to extend their occupation way into the far future to turn their sect into the dominant force in the galaxy while they were at it anyway....
Do we know when the battle on Trenzalore took place? Can the Silence definitely time travel?
Well we know that the Silence tookover in a manner of speaking in the past based on infomation they got from the future. We don't know how they did it but it's possible that the ship in The Lodger was one of their ships.
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Old January 25 2014, 12:48 AM   #465
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

TASHA LEM: Why did you ever come to Trenzalore?
THE DOCTOR: Well, I did come to Trenzalore, and nothing can change that now. Didn't stop you trying though, did it?
TASHA LEM: Not me. The Kovarian Chapter broke away. They travelled back along your timeline and tried to prevent you ever reaching Trenzalore.
THE DOCTOR: So that's who blew up my TARDIS. I thought I'd left the bath running.
TASHA LEM: They blew up your time capsule, creating the very cracks in the universe through which the Time Lords are now calling.
THE DOCTOR: The destiny trap. You can't change history if you're part of it.
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