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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: Grade "The Time Of The Doctor"
Geronimo! 64 30.48%
Fish Fingers and Custard 84 40.00%
Average 36 17.14%
Not Good 21 10.00%
Beans are evil. Bad bad beans! | 5 2.38%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 26 2013, 02:54 PM   #166
The Laughing Vulcan
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Naff, but watchable.

There was one plot that Moffat didn't resolve. I was sure 10 would show up, walk into the regeneration energy as 11 was off wiping out daleks, and Alan Rickman would pop out as the Valeyard. I'm surprised he let that go. Everything else was crammed in!

And why not pack the villagers into the Tardis and fly off?

One thing, the second time Clara returned, and we get that lingering introduction to Ancient 11, from the back there I got a weird Hartnell vibe that lingered for a few seconds...
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Old December 26 2013, 03:03 PM   #167
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Jon1701 wrote: View Post
One thing, the second time Clara returned, and we get that lingering introduction to Ancient 11, from the back there I got a weird Hartnell vibe that lingered for a few seconds...
I did as well. Combination of the hair and the cane.
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Old December 26 2013, 03:21 PM   #168
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
I'm fairly sure that reusing old musical themes was intentional this time around, since the Time Lords and the Time War itself had their own themes during the RTD era. Murray Gold is, at the very least, consistent.
Reusing the Tenth Doctor's action theme ("All the Strange Strange Creatures") during a scene in the Papal Mainframe not involving the Doctor is not "consistent".

I don't blame Murray Gold at all - after all, if he was failing this badly the production team should have sacked him. I blame the producers for not giving him enough time and/or budget for new music. At this rate one CD will hold all of the new musical material for the Capaldi era.

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
I noticed this during the 50th as well. The UNIT theme, the Time War theme (from Journey's End), etc. all made a return.
Except that wasn't the UNIT theme, that was some other random S1 music they used instead of the UNIT theme. (Heck, even SJA used the right music! )
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Old December 26 2013, 04:05 PM   #169
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

All the strange, strange creatures was playing right when the whole situation changed from siege to war and all the... well, creatures started to take action.

And I think we got an inkling of the new Doctor's theme in an ever so subtle way once Capaldi shows up.
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Old December 26 2013, 04:09 PM   #170
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Overall I enjoyed it. Just one nitpick, and it's not entirely with this episode. When River shot The Doctor at Lake Silencio, how was he starting to regenerate if he'd used up all of his regenerations?
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Old December 26 2013, 04:15 PM   #171
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

eklypse wrote: View Post
Overall I enjoyed it. Just one nitpick, and it's not entirely with this episode. When River shot The Doctor at Lake Silencio, how was he starting to regenerate if he'd used up all of his regenerations?
He was not actually regenerating.
He was using a shapeshifting robot to put on a lightshow to convince the bad guys, that he has been killed.
Everyone knows Time Lords regenerate when being shot, so he faked the beginning of that process to make it more convincing.
No one knows he was already at the end of his regen cycle, so not seeing an attempted regeneration might have caused suspicion.
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Old December 26 2013, 04:19 PM   #172
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Brendan Moody wrote: View Post
Of course, Moffat could also have chosen to skip the final incarnation thing altogether by not counting "Journey's End" as a full regeneration.
I still don't see why it wouldn't count seeing as he didn't somehow suck the regeneration energy back into his body its still getting used up.
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Old December 26 2013, 04:24 PM   #173
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Brendan Moody wrote: View Post
Of course, Moffat could also have chosen to skip the final incarnation thing altogether by not counting "Journey's End" as a full regeneration.
I still don't see why it wouldn't count seeing as he didn't somehow suck the regeneration energy back into his body its still getting used up.
That's one of the bits I didn't like about this episode, the whole contrivance to let Moffat deal with the 12 regenerations limit on his watch (although it does tend to suggest that he will move on either with Capaldi or even before that). I always thought that the metacrisis thing helped save a regeneration for Tennant, but now he just saved face, and we get a throwaway vanity issues line that seems a little disparaging.
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Old December 26 2013, 04:29 PM   #174
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Well, it was just a throwaway line, so I wouldn't think too much about it.

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
I still don't see why it wouldn't count seeing as he didn't somehow suck the regeneration energy back into his body its still getting used up.
Well, the mechanisms of "regeneration energy" weren't really established until Matt Smith's tenure. From watching that scene, I took it that the energy itself was the destructive force that caused the body to change and giving it an outlet stopped the process before it was completed. In other words, I took the energy to be the mechanism of regeneration, but not what caused the regeneration in the first place (and, therefore, wasn't the source of the 13 lives limit).
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Old December 26 2013, 04:32 PM   #175
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

The Laughing Vulcan wrote: View Post
That's one of the bits I didn't like about this episode, the whole contrivance to let Moffat deal with the 12 regenerations limit on his watch (although it does tend to suggest that he will move on either with Capaldi or even before that). I always thought that the metacrisis thing helped save a regeneration for Tennant, but now he just saved face, and we get a throwaway vanity issues line that seems a little disparaging.
And what's the alternative? Moffat not addressing it and everybody complaining that it wasn't addressed?
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Old December 26 2013, 04:37 PM   #176
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

shivkala wrote: View Post

And what's the alternative? Moffat not addressing it and everybody complaining that it wasn't addressed?
By leaving the whole issue until the end or even midway through Capaldi's tenure...
EDIT: Capaldi finds and frees Gallifrey, grateful Time Lords give him another regeneration cycle as a reward... Neat and tidy, and we could have a Star Wars style medal ceremony for him, Captain Jack, and K9, while Clara the Wookiee doesn't get a medal...

If this story was always intended to be Matt Smith's send-off, then I begin to very much doubt that Eccleston was seriously in the frame for the 50th. They need to have the War Doctor and Tennant's vanity issues to use up the regenerations and make Smith the 13th. And with that in mind, they wouldn't have been able to have Eccleston in the War Doctor role as a pre PTSD Northerner. They might have asked him to appear as a triumvirate of Doctors against John Hurt, and that would have been easier to turn down as too many cooks spoiling the broth (I always prefered Laurel and Hardy to the Three Stooges), or they might have asked him for a cameo for the War Doctor regeneration, again easy to turn down.
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Old December 26 2013, 04:38 PM   #177
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Timewar on X-Mas wrote: View Post
eklypse wrote: View Post
Overall I enjoyed it. Just one nitpick, and it's not entirely with this episode. When River shot The Doctor at Lake Silencio, how was he starting to regenerate if he'd used up all of his regenerations?
He was not actually regenerating.
He was using a shapeshifting robot to put on a lightshow to convince the bad guys, that he has been killed.
Everyone knows Time Lords regenerate when being shot, so he faked the beginning of that process to make it more convincing.
No one knows he was already at the end of his regen cycle, so not seeing an attempted regeneration might have caused suspicion.
Now I just feel dumb. Any other time I'd have remembered that. Thanks for reminding me, Timewar.
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Old December 26 2013, 04:46 PM   #178
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

I voted Fish Fingers and Custard. It wasn't the train-wreck I was expecting after reading the various comments above, but it was not nearly as good as TDotD.
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Old December 26 2013, 04:54 PM   #179
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

The Laughing Vulcan wrote: View Post
EDIT: Capaldi finds and frees Gallifrey, grateful Time Lords give him another regeneration cycle as a reward... Neat and tidy, and we could have a Star Wars style medal ceremony for him, Captain Jack, and K9, while Clara the Wookiee doesn't get a medal...
Neat and tidy without any theme or meaning or sacrifice. Here, the Time Lords sacrificed their chance to come home at that moment in order to save the Doctor there. To me, that's better. They can have their reward ceremony and all that when they actually come home, but that's a different day.
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Old December 26 2013, 05:02 PM   #180
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Don't get me wrong, I did love the last five minutes of last last night's DW, but the more I think about about everything before the Matt Smith farewell in the TARDIS, the more problems I have with it.

The direction was calculated to provide cool-looking individual shots to pick from for the trailer, rather than to carry a narrative. The editing wasn't up to it either.

I still think, overall, were given a shopping list of things originally intended for an arc. Look at some of the things that would have been so cool if they were given an episode- wooden Cybermen! The Doctor being allied with the Silents as they turned out to be the good guys after all - fuck me, that would have made a hell of an episode. But no, we get them all as throwaway lines in narration.

And what's with the town of Christmas? Why? If it had been a former theme park colony like the planet in Nightmare In Silver I could see that, but it was just... there because the brief says the Xmas episode has to be stuffed with irrelevant Xmas trappings.

The holographic clothes? What was the point other than padding? Yeah they got a couple of good gags out of it, but it still outlived its purpose.

Worst of all- why Trenzalore and all that, when that whole arc was meant to lead to the 50th... and did. I mean, that arc was all covered *in the previous two fucking episodes* - why go over it again, only worse?

Oh, which reminds me, of all the episodes you need to be accessible to the casual viewers, it's the Xmas one. This fails on that score.

The DW year as a whole has been like a magnificent charge along a rugby or American Football field, unstoppably great from season 7 all the way to the 50th anniversary special, and then tripping over its own shoelaces at the goal-line and the ball flying off into the crowd.

Actually, you know what the whole Xmas episode felt like - apart from the regeneration scene - ? That really stupid bit of wooly thinking in Tomorrow Never Dies when Bond's car has a cable cutter on an extending badge which could only possibly cut a cable if someone put one at exactly the height of the cutter, which they do.

I know, people are going to complain "oh, sour grapes or something" - but no, I've defended and praised Moffat's handling of the show most of the time, and am happy with most of his episodes, but if I'm gonna say "that episode was great because of..." then it's only fair that I should say the opposite when he fucks it up.

And everybody fucks up sometime, everybody has an off-day; there's no real shame in that. It's just that... if you fuck it up in the middle of a season, it's easier for the audience to accept cos it'll be better next week. But when you fuck it up and the end of the year, when there's no new episodes for nine months... The audience aren't going to be so sanguine about it. Well, not this audience here, anyway... And is such a shame after all the good stuff we've had this year in DW.
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