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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: Grade "The Time Of The Doctor"
Geronimo! 64 30.48%
Fish Fingers and Custard 84 40.00%
Average 36 17.14%
Not Good 21 10.00%
Beans are evil. Bad bad beans! | 5 2.38%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 26 2013, 01:04 PM   #151
inflatabledalek
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Oh, and another black mark against it, I had to look up the cast list on Wikipedia to be completely sure who Clara was supposed to be having Christmas dinner with as they recast her Dad. And as the younger woman is only credited as "Linda" I'm not sure what the familiar relationship was supposed to be there- a step mum or girlfriend of her dad's? Aunt? Cousin? Some random bird? I mean, I was never a huge fan of the companions family playing a large role in the show but at least they used to do more with them than have them randomly turn up without being completely clear who they are.

The Silence were explained in the least interesting way possible as well: The Doctor had already found out in between their appearances and just throws it in as dull exposition? Bah.

Two things I'm a bit confused by:

Why were the people of Christmas celebrating Christmas all the time? To use the Doctor's analogy, they're not constantly sharing chocolate eggs on Easter island are they? Is it some sort of tourist destination or something?

[The people of Christmas were almost Ba'Ku level wet blankets as well, most of them seemed perfectly happy to go on celebrating Christmas whilst the poor old Doctor had to do all the hard work. Hey guys, priorities, your home is under constant attack, maybe scale back Christmas to once a year and deal with the threat of instant death first?]

The Time Lords plan... so in order to know it's safe to come back into the Universe, they're sending a question only the Doctor can answer so that when he judges the time is right he can say his name and they will come back through?

Except... they've also created a truth field around the planet so that rather than judging the right time the Doctor will be compulsed to answer the question truthfully the second he hears it.

Except... despite the truth field he doesn't answer the question despite it being repeatedly asked. So does the truth thing work or not, and what was the point of it?
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Old December 26 2013, 01:07 PM   #152
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
For a moment there, I even thought he was going to attack Clara.
He was rather...predatory and intense for a second there. I expected hi to say "Who are you? Wait, who am I?" but we got the random and funny "Kidneys!" line.
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Old December 26 2013, 01:11 PM   #153
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

I liked it, but agree that it was a bit rushed and slightly disjointed. Smith and Coleman were brilliant though, and I loved the regeneration scene.

I'm really going to miss Matt Smith.
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Old December 26 2013, 01:12 PM   #154
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

inflatabledalek wrote: View Post
Why were the people of Christmas celebrating Christmas all the time?
They were?

The Time Lords plan... so in order to know it's safe to come back into the Universe, they're sending a question only the Doctor can answer so that when he judges the time is right he can say his name and they will come back through?
Kinda.

Except... they've also created a truth field around the planet so that rather than judging the right time the Doctor will be compulsed to answer the question truthfully the second he hears it.
You've made that up.

Except... despite the truth field he doesn't answer the question despite it being repeatedly asked. So does the truth thing work or not, and what was the point of it?
If you don't answer you can't lie.
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Old December 26 2013, 01:12 PM   #155
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Timewar on X-Mas wrote: View Post
I liked having all the kids pictures around, much like Amy's scrap books of adventures with the Raggedy Man. Counter point that with the Clara dropping into the story the way Matt was into Amy's 1st story (appearing over the years relative to The Doctor but only minutes for her) this made a sweet bookend for the two companions as well.
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Old December 26 2013, 01:14 PM   #156
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

inflatabledalek wrote: View Post
Oh, and another black mark against it, I had to look up the cast list on Wikipedia to be completely sure who Clara was supposed to be having Christmas dinner with as they recast her Dad. And as the younger woman is only credited as "Linda" I'm not sure what the familiar relationship was supposed to be there- a step mum or girlfriend of her dad's? Aunt? Cousin? Some random bird? I mean, I was never a huge fan of the companions family playing a large role in the show but at least they used to do more with them than have them randomly turn up without being completely clear who they are.
Why would they use the same actor they cast as Clara's dad as a 20-something in the 80's to play a 50-something in 2013? Of course they would look for an older guy.

And I think it was meant to be pretty clear that Linda was meant to be the standard-order evil stepmother type.

You're nitpicking here. We still don't know a lot about Clara and this IS the first time we have met her "proper" family. They only had an hour to work with. Maybe they'll explore more later, or if the rumor is true that Jenna is leaving midway through series 8, this will be the only time we see them. In which case, they served their purpose....to show us that Clara's family is like everyone else's.
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Old December 26 2013, 01:14 PM   #157
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Enjoyable episode, but as others have already said, it was rushed and the story was messy. Actually, the story wasn't all that messy and tied up some loose ends nicely, rather the pacing of the episode was messy. It was a mix of the usual forced "IT'S CHRISTMAS!" cheer, the need to check off a list, the want of a bunch of monsters in one episode, and the drive towards The Doctor's regeneration. As a result, we didn't get a strong sense of The Doctor living in Trenzalore for hundreds of years, besides Matt Smith's strong performance and the old make-up (which was much, much better than the make-up used in "The Last of the Time Lords"). Even though it was expected, I didn't like the acknowledgement of the meta-crisis as a whole regeneration and I wasn't remotely surprised by Gallifrey giving The Doctor a new cycle of regenerations, although I did like the foreshadowing with the callback to "The Five Doctors." Tying The Crack with the search for Gallifrey was also a nice twist.

The regeneration was a bit wonky and felt like a case of having the cake and eating it, too. The Doctor uses his regeneration energy to defeat the Daleks (and I guess everyone else decided to flee?), and yet is able to pull a Tenth Doctor by holding off the final process so Matt Smith can get a proper goodbye to Clara and the audience. I loved his final moments and the surprise appearance by Karen Gillan (although that was clearly not Caitlin Blackwood), but it reminded me too much of "The End of Time."

I had hoped, but certainly didn't expect, Peter Capaldi would get more than a few seconds of screen time, but what little we did get, I enjoyed. Next autumn can't come soon enough. I just hope, as others have already said, Moffat avoids large, complicated arcs in the future. The search for Gallifrey is enough for me.
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Old December 26 2013, 01:18 PM   #158
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Except... despite the truth field he doesn't answer the question despite it being repeatedly asked. So does the truth thing work or not, and what was the point of it?
If you don't answer you can't lie.
Except, that it was also supposed to keep you from failing the answer.
But then he did answer, more than once.
His name IS The Doctor.
Once the Time Lords realized that, they decided to help him instead of helping themselves totally in the spirit of The Doctor!
The more I think about this episode the more I like it.

One random thought, for a second there I thought, they would reveal Clara's gandma to be a former companion of the Doctor. Would that have been too much?
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Old December 26 2013, 01:20 PM   #159
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Timewar on X-Mas wrote: View Post
Except, that it was also supposed to keep you from failing the answer.
Yeah, but it doesn't say when you have to answer. And The Doctor's price for delaying and delaying was to very nearly die until the Time Lords changed their mind as you quite rightly said, his name is The Doctor
: )
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Old December 26 2013, 01:21 PM   #160
Gov Kodos
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Timewar on X-Mas wrote: View Post
Shazam! wrote: View Post
Except... despite the truth field he doesn't answer the question despite it being repeatedly asked. So does the truth thing work or not, and what was the point of it?
If you don't answer you can't lie.
Except, that it was also supposed to keep you from failing the answer.
But then he did answer, more than once.
His name IS The Doctor.
Once the Time Lords realized that, they decided to help him instead of helping themselves totally in the spirit of The Doctor!
The more I think about this episode the more I like it.

One random thought, for a second there I thought, they would reveal Clara's gandma to be a former companion of the Doctor. Would that have been too much?
Not really, the couple they met said they would need to get used to the field. I would guess by that you don't have to answer. Once used to the field, you develop the civilized habit of not blurting out what's on your mind.
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Old December 26 2013, 01:22 PM   #161
inflatabledalek
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

sttngfan1701d wrote: View Post
Why would they use the same actor they cast as Clara's dad as a 20-something in the 80's to play a 50-something in 2013? Of course they would look for an older guy.
They were happy to have him play older for the scene of her mother's funeral though weren't they? Which (IIRC) was set as recent as 2005 wasn't it? Plus, it's not as this was an episode averse to unconvincing old age make up was it? Presumably it was either an availability thing or being unhappy with the original actor.


EDIT: @Gov, that would make sense, even if it wasn't completely clear in the episode ("Getting used to it" could just a easily mean just having to get used to not being able to lie) and means the Doctor got used to it very quickly..
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Old December 26 2013, 01:25 PM   #162
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

inflatabledalek wrote: View Post
sttngfan1701d wrote: View Post
Why would they use the same actor they cast as Clara's dad as a 20-something in the 80's to play a 50-something in 2013? Of course they would look for an older guy.
They were happy to have him play older for the scene of her mother's funeral though weren't they? Which (IIRC) was set as recent as 2005 wasn't it? Plus, it's not as this was an episode averse to unconvincing old age make up was it? Presumably it was either an availability thing or being unhappy with the original actor.
Or maybe the actor simply wasn't available? Stuff like that happens.
BTW, they also recast little Amelia!
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Old December 26 2013, 01:37 PM   #163
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

It is unsurprising that they recast Amelia given that three years is a long time in a developmental sense between 10 and 13.
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Old December 26 2013, 01:41 PM   #164
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Hanukkah Solo wrote: View Post
I also found the whole bit about this being the Doctor's final incarnation to be pretty unnecessary. Not to mention that it was handled in a pretty half-hearted way. "This is my last life. Oh, cool, a new regeneration!" The Doctor overcoming his regeneration limit should have been a much bigger deal, I think.
I agree that it needed to be dealt with at greater length, perhaps by seeding the Doctor's realization that he's the final incarnation across a number of episodes instead of springing it suddenly at the moment when it came into play.

From a production standpoint, though, Moffat's hands were tied. Season Clara was in the can (except for the final scene of "The Name of the Doctor," which was shot during the block for "The Day of the Doctor") months before he was absolutely certain that there would be a War Doctor incarnation, which (with the "Journey's End" nonsense) would make Matt 13 rather than 11.

The only place he could seed that Matt's incarnation was the last was "The Day of the Doctor." He does sort of, with the certainty that Trenzalore is the end for the Doctor (depending on how you interpret the Curator, of course), but it's not explicit why Trenzalore is so certain to be his final end.

Basically, it's easy to say in retrospect that Moffat should have seeded this plot point better, but given what he knew, when he knew it, and what he had to work with, we couldn't have learned it any other way.
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Old December 26 2013, 02:13 PM   #165
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Of course, Moffat could also have chosen to skip the final incarnation thing altogether by not counting "Journey's End" as a full regeneration. Personally, though, I'm just as happy he didn't. Given that we've already had two mediocre-to-terrible "the Doctor confronts his mortality (but not really)" arcs in the Tennant specials and series six, I don't see the benefit of doing another one. It's the kind of thing that sounds like potent dramatic material but doesn't actually lead anywhere interesting, or at least not anywhere family-friendly TV Doctor Who can go.
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