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Old January 6 2014, 11:22 PM   #61
PicardSpeedo
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Re: "If it appeared on screen, it's canon." THIS is canon?!?

That's what Starfleet gets for recycling the Time Tunnel into a turbolift shaft...
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Old January 13 2014, 09:28 AM   #62
milojthatch
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Re: "If it appeared on screen, it's canon." THIS is canon?!?

You know what, since JJ (I don't give a damn about Star Trek) Abrams came on board, I don't think "cannon" has the same meaning anymore. At this point, it's whatever the individual fan wants it to be.
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Old January 13 2014, 11:36 AM   #63
Robert Comsol
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Re: "If it appeared on screen, it's canon." THIS is canon?!?

^^ "Canon" may not be relevant fur the nuTrek universe, but fortunately its retroactive impact on the previous Star Trek incarnations is rather negligible, IMHO.

"A Piece of the Action" made it abundantly clear that Kirk wouldn't know how to drive a car.

Yet, the first nuTrek trailer I saw (I find it somewhat offensive that each time I give one of my movie BDs a spin I have to skip this chapter, but that's a different story) made it abundantly clear to me that canon would be a rather irrelevant concept in nuTrek.

Bob
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Old January 13 2014, 01:00 PM   #64
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: "If it appeared on screen, it's canon." THIS is canon?!?

Kirk driving or not driving comes years after the timelines diverge, so there's no conflict there. Obviously, Kirk Prime never took his Dad's antique car out for a joyride.

The new movies actually have quite an impact on classic TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY. We now know Kirk's parents served on the USS Kelvin, we've seen what 23rd century Earth is like (presumably Kirk Prime knew how to drive the cars of his era... or maybe he just rode his horse everywhere?), we've seen the Kenthra Province where Martok grew up (albeit an apocalyptic version), we've had some more tidbits about the Eugenics Wars and the technology involved. Oh yeah, and the biggies - Vulcan having Red Matter technology and Romulus being destroyed in 2387. We also met some Romulan miners who thankfully don't adhere to the bowl cut/shoulder pad style so common in the Empire.

Seeing how "new information" alters our perception of what came before has always been a highlight of Trek for me.
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Old January 13 2014, 02:31 PM   #65
Robert Comsol
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Re: "If it appeared on screen, it's canon." THIS is canon?!?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
We now know Kirk's parents served on the USS Kelvin....
Obviously the "we" excludes me. What I do know from Gene Roddenberry's TMP novelization is that the Enterprise was constructed in the orbital shipyard of San Francisco, thus the whole idea of assembling a starship on the ground looks rather archaic and not very practical to me.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Presumably Kirk Prime knew how to drive the cars of his era... or maybe he just rode his horse everywhere?)
Since they have antigrav portable devices in TOS, it stands to reason that for personnel travel there are antigrav vehicles available that will travel over any terrain and won't be limited to available street infrastructure.

In this context it rather looks hilarious that someone like nuTrek's Kirk is voluntarily limiting his personal movement and freedom to the street infrastructure available.

Maybe nuTrek's Kirk is a conflicted individual with trauma because of such limitations and thus desperately seeks command of a starship where he won't encounter such limitations?

Bob
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Old January 13 2014, 05:05 PM   #66
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: "If it appeared on screen, it's canon." THIS is canon?!?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
We now know Kirk's parents served on the USS Kelvin....
Obviously the "we" excludes me. What I do know from Gene Roddenberry's TMP novelization is that the Enterprise was constructed in the orbital shipyard of San Francisco, thus the whole idea of assembling a starship on the ground looks rather archaic and not very practical to me.
As seen in "Parallels", TNG-era Trek builds Galaxy-class starships on the surface of Mars, and as seen in Into Darkness, the alternate reality Starfleet builds ships in TMP-style drydock facilities as well as on the ground.
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Presumably Kirk Prime knew how to drive the cars of his era... or maybe he just rode his horse everywhere?)
Since they have antigrav portable devices in TOS, it stands to reason that for personnel travel there are antigrav vehicles available that will travel over any terrain and won't be limited to available street infrastructure.

In this context it rather looks hilarious that someone like nuTrek's Kirk is voluntarily limiting his personal movement and freedom to the street infrastructure available.
As seen in Into Darkness, there are several kinds of vehicle on Earth - wheeled cars and bikes limited to the streets and skybridges, hovercars which can take to the streets or the air (see also: "All Good Things" for Geordi and Picard's ride to Data's estate), and flight-only vehicles many of which are presumably spaceworthy also. I'd assume what one drives depends upon what one can afford.
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Old January 13 2014, 05:20 PM   #67
B.J.
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Re: "If it appeared on screen, it's canon." THIS is canon?!?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
"A Piece of the Action" made it abundantly clear that Kirk wouldn't know how to drive a car.

Yet, the first nuTrek trailer I saw (I find it somewhat offensive that each time I give one of my movie BDs a spin I have to skip this chapter, but that's a different story) made it abundantly clear to me that canon would be a rather irrelevant concept in nuTrek.
I haven't seen APotA in a while, but aside from the "different universe" argument, a 1965 Corvette is pretty different from a car whose design is 40 years older. I doubt I'd be able to easily start or drive a car from the '20s.
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Old January 13 2014, 05:44 PM   #68
Robert Comsol
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Re: "If it appeared on screen, it's canon." THIS is canon?!?

I'd also doubt I'd be able to easily start a car from the 1920's but after a short while I think everyone with some car experience would know how to drive an oldtimer, too.

Kirk didn't and I'm pretty certain the context of the scene implied that he had never driven a car before (but considered getting one in the future):

KIRK: Wheels, Mister Spock.
SPOCK: A fliwer, Captain.
KIRK: Key in the ignition. Turn the ignition on. And nothing happens. Where's the starter? There's the starter. Yes!
SPOCK: Interesting.
KIRK: (pushing the gear lever and making grinding noises) Oops! Gears.
SPOCK: Yes. Oh. I believe they had a device known as a clutch. Clutch, Captain. Perhaps one of those pedals on the floor.
KIRK: (puts it quietly into gear) I kind of like this. I'm going to get one myself.
(He lets up the clutch, and they go backwards. The car kangaroos elegantly down the street and somehow makes it to JoJo's place.)
SPOCK: Captain, you are an excellent starship commander, but as a taxi driver you leave much to be desired.
KIRK: It was that bad?

Yes, it was! Especially for someone who supposedly knew how to drive other cars in his adolescence.

Bob
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Old January 13 2014, 05:48 PM   #69
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: "If it appeared on screen, it's canon." THIS is canon?!?

All they have to do is re-arrange the foot pedals or gear shift or modify some other controls in the next 250 years to flummox the licenced 23rd-century driver.
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Old January 14 2014, 06:17 AM   #70
Gary Mitchell
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Re: "If it appeared on screen, it's canon." THIS is canon?!?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
We can start with James R. Kirk.
Okay, this one doesn't show up on a personnel file (like the ones of Dehner and Mitchell) but on a tombstone created by Crazy Gary who has become rather evil at that point in WNM and is possibly showing off his wicked humor:
Hey, watch it with the "Crazy Gary" stuff. I was under a lot of stress.
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Old January 14 2014, 11:56 AM   #71
Robert Comsol
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Re: "If it appeared on screen, it's canon." THIS is canon?!?

Would Wicked Gary with crazy humor qualify as the more appropriate wording?

Bob

P.S. Welcome back in the world of the mundanes.
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Old January 28 2014, 06:29 PM   #72
USS Excelsior
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Re: "If it appeared on screen, it's canon." THIS is canon?!?

You betcha.....



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Old January 28 2014, 07:07 PM   #73
T'Girl
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Re: "If it appeared on screen, it's canon." THIS is canon?!?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
We can start with James R. Kirk.
Okay, this one doesn't show up on a personnel file (like the ones of Dehner and Mitchell) but on a tombstone created by Crazy Gary ...
It is canon that Kirk himself self identified his middle initial as a T, and never a R. His official Starfleet records say the same.

Now it is also canon that Gary placed a R on the tombstone for some reason, but that reason wasn't because it was Kirk's actual middle initial.

(Go Seahawks)
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