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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Peaceable Kingdoms.
Outstanding 18 20.45%
Above Average 36 40.91%
Average 30 34.09%
Below Average 3 3.41%
Poor 1 1.14%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 21 2014, 08:45 PM   #151
zarkon
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Re: TF: Peaceable Kingdoms by Dayton Ward Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Masiral wrote: View Post
Paris wrote: View Post
zarkon wrote: View Post
...Looking forward to seeing if "The Light Fantastic" might not just give the e-e a new second officer(has that role ever been filled since kadohata split?).
Geordi is the second officer. I forget which book it was mentioned in, but i clearly remember Picard describing him as the second officer now, as well as being the chief engineer. Anyone remember which book it was?
I'm pretty sure it was Plagues of Night, but I don't have the book with me to check.
Ah, that makes sense, I don't read DRG3 books anymore so I would have missed it.
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Old January 22 2014, 02:26 PM   #152
Enterpriserules
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Re: TF: Peaceable Kingdoms by Dayton Ward Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Reanok wrote: View Post
Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
BrentMc wrote: View Post
I enjoyed this ending to "The Fall" series, but it did not leave me as satisfied as the David Mack "Destiny," or "Cold Equations" series. It left me more excited about future books. I was happy that in the ending they said Starfleet is going to do more exploring. I look forward to some Enterprise-E exploration themed books. I am not as interested in the more political, or cold war themed books.

I was glad Ezri Dax was put back into command. I hope to read more of her and the Aventine and I hope Data makes a return appearance and we find out what he has done since "Cold Equations."

I would like them to return Riker to command of Titan and have some missions with a deep space fleet with the Enterprise, Titan and Aventine.

They said the Enterprise was getting some upgrades. I would like for it and Titan to get quantum slipstream so that they don't seem outdated and they can go on deep space exploration missions with Aventine. They wouldn't all have to be side by side, but in the same region so they can meet up if they find anything or come to the aid of one another.

Who else things an exploration fleet of Enterprise, Titan (With Riker back) and Aventine could be a fun story arch?
I found it as satisfying as Destiny and more so that Cold Equations, even though I like CE. I am really hoping Riker will be back on Titan, but they did a really good job of making his admiralship very interesting. What I want to see is Sisko have more to do. I really miss that this character that was a god has had so little to do now that he is back in the universe. Personally I always thought he should be an admiral on the new DS9 as his base.
I enjoyed listening to literary trek and all the interviews with the authors for The Fall series I really enjoyed readindg all the books in this series the last book did a great wrapping up this series.I hope we'll get another Titan and Ds9 novel dealing with the aftermath of the events and see how people are dealing with Ishan and Velk will be tried for their crimes.
I am with you, I really want to see DS9 and Titan continue as well as furthering Ezri's story as a captain. Thanks for listening to the show!
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Old January 25 2014, 02:35 PM   #153
Cyfa
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Re: TF: Peaceable Kingdoms by Dayton Ward Review Thread (Spoilers!)

After having read some of the less favourable reviews in this thread before I received the book, I wasn't sure that I was going to like it. Now that I've read it, however, I really enjoyed it! Although I didn't find it as engaging as Una McCormack's Brinkmanship, for example (an excellent novel, and one of my very favourites of any genre), I think it's a very good read and a fitting end to The Fall series, and to the 24th century storyline so far.

In particular, I loved how certain characters were shown or developed, especially the security officers Rennan Konya and Kirsten Cruzen from the Enterprise-E. It's nice to see security staff who are more than competent in their role, and in their case, bloody brilliant! The nicely "calmed down", but still singular T'Ryssa Chen was a pleasure to see again, as was Miranda Kadohata (all be it briefly) in the flashback to the Enterprise-D.
Speaking of the flashbacks, I thought they were quite well placed and it was good to see more of Crusher and her past. I'm very pleased to hear that future novels will have some focus on the oft neglected doctor.
Although their roles were minor, it's good to know characters like Taurik, Dina Elfiki, and Sonya Gomez are still around.

As others have said, I'm really loooking forward to seeing how the rest of the 24th century unfolds. It's good to hear that exploration is back on the cards and that the dark days of war and political machinations may be over.
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Old January 27 2014, 02:38 PM   #154
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Re: TF: Peaceable Kingdoms by Dayton Ward Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Cyfa wrote: View Post
After having read some of the less favourable reviews in this thread before I received the book, I wasn't sure that I was going to like it. Now that I've read it, however, I really enjoyed it! Although I didn't find it as engaging as Una McCormack's Brinkmanship, for example (an excellent novel, and one of my very favourites of any genre), I think it's a very good read and a fitting end to The Fall series, and to the 24th century storyline so far.

In particular, I loved how certain characters were shown or developed, especially the security officers Rennan Konya and Kirsten Cruzen from the Enterprise-E. It's nice to see security staff who are more than competent in their role, and in their case, bloody brilliant! The nicely "calmed down", but still singular T'Ryssa Chen was a pleasure to see again, as was Miranda Kadohata (all be it briefly) in the flashback to the Enterprise-D.
Speaking of the flashbacks, I thought they were quite well placed and it was good to see more of Crusher and her past. I'm very pleased to hear that future novels will have some focus on the oft neglected doctor.
Although their roles were minor, it's good to know characters like Taurik, Dina Elfiki, and Sonya Gomez are still around.

As others have said, I'm really loooking forward to seeing how the rest of the 24th century unfolds. It's good to hear that exploration is back on the cards and that the dark days of war and political machinations may be over.
I really agree about Chen, I think Dayton nailed her character and I hope to see her back more often. Her relationship with Picard is one of my favorites on the Enterprise these days.
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Old January 27 2014, 06:16 PM   #155
JeBuS
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Re: TF: Peaceable Kingdoms by Dayton Ward Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
I really agree about Chen, I think Dayton nailed her character and I hope to see her back more often. Her relationship with Picard is one of my favorites on the Enterprise these days.
Chen is just about the only lit character on the E-E that has a unique personality at this point. It would be nice to see more of her than a few quick scenes.
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Old January 28 2014, 02:41 PM   #156
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Re: TF: Peaceable Kingdoms by Dayton Ward Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JeBuS wrote: View Post
Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
I really agree about Chen, I think Dayton nailed her character and I hope to see her back more often. Her relationship with Picard is one of my favorites on the Enterprise these days.
Chen is just about the only lit character on the E-E that has a unique personality at this point. It would be nice to see more of her than a few quick scenes.
I agree with this, she reminds me a bit of early Dax in her humor. I think her relationship with Picard is something I look forward to seeing more of, they play off each other well.
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Old January 31 2014, 05:08 AM   #157
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Re: TF: Peaceable Kingdoms by Dayton Ward Review Thread (Spoilers!)

The problem with the entire thrust of the series (Bacco assassination) is that it comes right after we just had another assassination attempt that nearly succeeded in the 2nd Cold Equations book, which is not long before R&D. But by the end of the series, we have a Bacco-lite in office, so it's not like anything major changes because of this series. The main consequence is Bashir going on trial and the Andorian situation being concluded. Also Riker is an admiral for now, but that could change by the end of this upcoming Titan book for all we know.

I agree with the general consensus that this book is average at best. The pacing is weird, there are far too many flashbacks (not all of which are really that necessary), and ultimately a lot of what happens could have been added to the end of the last book. It feels kind of stretched out plot-wise after the last three books.

The main issue is, as mentioned, the lack of tension since we already know what's going on, other than the big reveal about Ishan's identity which is also revealed early in the book. The middle chunk of the book is also pretty slow going, for the most part, bogged down with flashbacks. The reveal is also not very surprising, once the book begins.

A lot more time could have been spent detailing the reaches of this conspiracy, something that falls by the wayside as the book progresses. We get a small mention of the Starfleet admiral who seems to be coordinating ship movements for Ishan, but he ends up doing virtually nothing in the end and never reappears.

I wish it wasn't so anti-climatic, but it does come off like the main narrative (Crusher's relationship with the Cardassian doctor) could have been in a middle book instead of the finale, where it slows down the pacing of the story.

As a whole, the middle three books of this series are the best of the bunch, and I would put them in order as follows:

-Crimson Shadow
-Ceremony of Losses
-Poisoned Chalice
-Peaceable Kingdoms
-Revelation and Dust

The first one does an excellent job of establishing great tension, good characterization, and good world-building. We get a great idea of what things are like on Cardassia for average citizens a decade after the Dominion War, and the various political struggles in their society. Garak is again a great character when written well, as he is here.

Ceremony of Losses keeps up the tension for about half of the book as everyone tries to find Bashir before he can help the Andorians, and it's a well written chase with a mix of politics. Not quite as good as Crimson, but very close.

Poisoned Chalice focuses more on the political intrigue/espionage angle than the other four books, and does it pretty well. The Titan crew and others (like Nog) get a lot to do, and bringing back Tom Riker works well. It's not quite as well paced as the first two books I mentioned, but it executes well what it sets out to do.

Revelation and Dust is the biggest disappointment. It's very scattershot, devoting half of its pages to a very draggy Kira plot that really needed to be in a different novel. I found myself skipping through those parts pretty quickly as I wanted to get back to the current narrative. The other half of the book is OK, but the actual plot it contains is very small. We just really have the lead up to the assassination, and the early aftermath that leads into the rest of the series. The repeated problem is that a lot of the book exists solely to set up future DS9 plots (I guess), with the Odo stuff, Sisko going into the Gamma Quadrant again, and whatever's going on with Kira. I'm looking forward to seeing where the Odo stuff goes, since we don't have a great idea (other than in the DS9 Typhon Pact 2 parter) what's been going on in the Dominion since the events of Worlds of DS9.


Overall I would give the series a B-, as the bookends of the series are very flawed and take away from the core three books. It also didn't bring major changes to the ST universe like Destiny did.
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Old January 31 2014, 05:21 AM   #158
Hanukkah Solo
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Re: TF: Peaceable Kingdoms by Dayton Ward Review Thread (Spoilers!)

To me, the series seemed like it could have been told just as easily in a trilogy rather than being stretched out into a pentalogy. Kira's story aside (which appeared to be setting up future DS9 novels and probably could have been reserved for those), I felt like the pertinent parts of Revelation and Dust could have happened in The Crimson Shadow, while the revelation of Ishan's true nature that we got in Peaceable Kingdoms could have just as easily occurred in The Poisoned Chalice instead. There were three really good novels stuck in between two others which, while well written (particularly in R&D's case), didn't feel particularly necessary.

As for how I'd rank the series:

1. A Ceremony of Losses
2. The Crimson Shadow
3. The Poisoned Chalice
4. Revelation and Dust
5. Peaceable Kingdoms
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Old January 31 2014, 05:44 AM   #159
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Re: TF: Peaceable Kingdoms by Dayton Ward Review Thread (Spoilers!)

So thinking about it a bit more...

Am I the only one who felt like the reveal of Phillipa Louvois being the Attorney General of the Federation is a bit too "Small Universe"? I mean I guess it's cute, but the only major attorney/JAG character we see in the show ends up being the chief prosecutor of the UFP?
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Old January 31 2014, 05:52 AM   #160
Hanukkah Solo
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Re: TF: Peaceable Kingdoms by Dayton Ward Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Nob Akimoto wrote: View Post
So thinking about it a bit more...

Am I the only one who felt like the reveal of Phillipa Louvois being the Attorney General of the Federation is a bit too "Small Universe"? I mean I guess it's cute, but the only major attorney/JAG character we see in the show ends up being the chief prosecutor of the UFP?
Maybe so, but would a random, previously unknown character have made as much of an impact on you? I thought it was a neat moment.
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Old February 1 2014, 06:25 PM   #161
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Re: TF: Peaceable Kingdoms by Dayton Ward Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I was a little bit dissapointed, especially with Crusher when she doesn't do much beyond reacting late especially whith the fight scenes .
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Old February 13 2014, 09:34 PM   #162
Jedi Ben
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Re: TF: Peaceable Kingdoms by Dayton Ward Review Thread (Spoilers!)

This was an OK conclusion - I really enjoyed the flashback chapters, those added quite a bit to the story, but overall? It came across as mechanistic. This is the job it's assigned to do in The Fall series and it has to do it.

It also shows up the marketing for The Fall, with the notion that you can read any one of the books, as utter bunk! It is a 5-book series so sell it as that! Points for honesty will be given if nothing else.

President Cardboard remains a charisma void, how anyone took him seriously is beyond me. Highlight of the book? Garak's cameo, so damn classy!

What I liked most is the series was an emphatic rejection of the militaristic tendency in the Federation and Starfleet. It would be fair to say the hawk faction could have been more subtly portrayed but their outlook was also complete crap. The idea that a more militaristic Federation would have had an easier time with the Dominion and Borg is, to me, utter counter-factual fiction that bears no resemblance to the reality.

While the Typhon Pact will continue as an adversary, I'd like to think this series sees the Federation politics getting a rest. Not least as the scars from the Borg invasion are partly scabbed over now and its in a much better position than it was. That's one of the things Pocket Books should get credit for - they did the Destiny arc, but also spent a substantive amount of time on the consequences afterwards, without overdoing it.
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Old February 13 2014, 09:49 PM   #163
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Re: TF: Peaceable Kingdoms by Dayton Ward Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Jedi Ben wrote: View Post
This was an OK conclusion - I really enjoyed the flashback chapters, those added quite a bit to the story, but overall? It came across as mechanistic. This is the job it's assigned to do in The Fall series and it has to do it.

It also shows up the marketing for The Fall, with the notion that you can read any one of the books, as utter bunk! It is a 5-book series so sell it as that! Points for honesty will be given if nothing else.

President Cardboard remains a charisma void, how anyone took him seriously is beyond me. Highlight of the book? Garak's cameo, so damn classy!

What I liked most is the series was an emphatic rejection of the militaristic tendency in the Federation and Starfleet. It would be fair to say the hawk faction could have been more subtly portrayed but their outlook was also complete crap. The idea that a more militaristic Federation would have had an easier time with the Dominion and Borg is, to me, utter counter-factual fiction that bears no resemblance to the reality.

While the Typhon Pact will continue as an adversary, I'd like to think this series sees the Federation politics getting a rest. Not least as the scars from the Borg invasion are partly scabbed over now and its in a much better position than it was. That's one of the things Pocket Books should get credit for - they did the Destiny arc, but also spent a substantive amount of time on the consequences afterwards, without overdoing it.
I think listening to the authors talk about the series on Literary Treks might help you have a little more background as to what they were going for with the series.
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Old February 15 2014, 12:29 AM   #164
Therin of Andor
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Re: TF: Peaceable Kingdoms by Dayton Ward Review Thread (Spoilers!)


Prize by Therin of Andor, on Flickr

My prize of a signed, enlarged cover slick of a "Star Trek" novel, "The Fall: Peaceable Kingdoms", arrived in the mail yesterday. With sincere thanks to author, Dayton Ward.
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Old February 28 2014, 07:22 PM   #165
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Re: TF: Peaceable Kingdoms by Dayton Ward Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Just finished reading this over lunch and I have a question about the Ishan reveal:

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