RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,830
Posts: 5,327,079
Members: 24,551
Currently online: 523
Newest member: Mycroft

TrekToday headlines

Latest Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Jul 10

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

New Trek Home Fashions
By: T'Bonz on Jul 4

Star Trek Pop-Ups Book Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 3


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 20 2013, 04:29 PM   #16
Tosk
Rear Admiral
 
Tosk's Avatar
 
Location: On the run.
Re: Hippocratic Oath

Isn't the oath basically just to do no harm though? And even then, you're not bound to take the oath to practice medicine. And even then, the oath is not legally binding in any way. It's basically just the honor system, a symbolic gesture. Or am I wrong?
Tosk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 20 2013, 07:30 PM   #17
WarpCore
Lieutenant
 
Re: Hippocratic Oath

Tosk wrote: View Post
Isn't the oath basically just to do no harm though? And even then, you're not bound to take the oath to practice medicine. And even then, the oath is not legally binding in any way. It's basically just the honor system, a symbolic gesture. Or am I wrong?
Correct on the latter parts. It's little more than a guilt-trip-booby-trap being set to act as guidelines for an ethical code. It's either broken millions of times every year considering it would categorize assisted suicide and abortions as "doing harm" or doctors' oaths aren't the Hippocratic Oath but an edited version with considerably different ethical standards. The term "Hippocratic Oath" has been made a generic term and today has little use other than film and tv.

Hell, if one were to pledge the classical version of the oath verbatim, they would be swearing to polytheistic pagan gods that medical school shall remain free but only available to others willing to pledge to the same gods to keep their craft secret. It was possibly the first trade union ever created. Originally 2500 years ago, you were bound to take the oath to learn medicine, not even to practice. Oh, and you had to be male. There is a little more to it than "do no harm." I don't think Bashir ever took that oath.
WarpCore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21 2013, 07:05 AM   #18
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Hippocratic Oath

Dragoniguana wrote: View Post
, we saw with Goran'Agar that being off ketracel white made him much less violent and less willing to kill. It's likely that, had the entire Jem'Hadar population been released from the drug's hold, they'd have become more peaceful people, or maybe even staged a revolt against the Founders. No matter the potential outcome, I do infer from the episode that even if it had been that small band that was freed, they probably would have just kept to themselves on that planet rather than do what O'Brien feared and rampage without any control.
Goran'Agar was unique. A mutant. He's the only one of his kind. You'll notice that when his men started going through white withdrawal, they became insane and violent...so the odds that there would ever be another like Goran'Agar are quite vanishingly small.
__________________
In labor news: Longshoremen walked off the piers today. Rescue operations are continuing.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 21 2013, 06:21 PM   #19
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Hippocratic Oath

Tosk wrote: View Post
Isn't the oath basically just to do no harm though? And even then, you're not bound to take the oath to practice medicine. And even then, the oath is not legally binding in any way. It's basically just the honor system, a symbolic gesture. Or am I wrong?
Legally binding! That was the term I was looking for.
__________________
lol
l
/\
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21 2013, 08:07 PM   #20
WesleysDisciple
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Hippocratic Oath

Ru ru, chu wrote: View Post
Dragoniguana wrote: View Post
, we saw with Goran'Agar that being off ketracel white made him much less violent and less willing to kill. It's likely that, had the entire Jem'Hadar population been released from the drug's hold, they'd have become more peaceful people, or maybe even staged a revolt against the Founders. No matter the potential outcome, I do infer from the episode that even if it had been that small band that was freed, they probably would have just kept to themselves on that planet rather than do what O'Brien feared and rampage without any control.
Goran'Agar was unique. A mutant. He's the only one of his kind. You'll notice that when his men started going through white withdrawal, they became insane and violent...so the odds that there would ever be another like Goran'Agar are quite vanishingly small.
The doctor DOES suggest that, it doesnt out and out STATE that however...

If they found a way to cure them its possible they'd have become less aggressive...
WesleysDisciple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22 2013, 02:35 AM   #21
JirinPanthosa
Commodore
 
Re: Hippocratic Oath

Bashir had the moral high ground in the episode but he was deluding himself not to realize that his actions were guaranteeing his and O'Brien's death. So I'm on O'Brien's side, in this situation he was acting rationally and Bashir was not.

There is a time and place for Bashir's attitude in that episode, and it's called The Quickening.

And while he may have been technically required in that episode to follow orders from Bashir, O'Brien knew that Bashir would never try to get him court martialed because of their friendship, and additionally I believe Sisko would have situationally sided with O'Brien.

The Hippocratic Oath is just to do no harm, it does not force you to medically intervene. There have in fact been cases where Doctors just out with their families off the job have refused to offer medical intervention out of fear of getting sued for malpractice for a broken sternum giving CPR or something.
JirinPanthosa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 24 2013, 02:45 AM   #22
Marie1
Rear Admiral
 
Marie1's Avatar
 
Location: Alpha Centauri
Re: Hippocratic Oath

Ru ru, chu wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
Except, of course, "free" Jem'Hadar are equally likely to go on a rampage against the Federation as they are likely to be grateful. O'Brien pointed out that at least the Founders kept them on a short leash (his exact words, IIRC). And who is to say that free Jem'Hadar wouldn't still choose to serve the Dominion? The white addiction seemed more like a way for the Vorta to handle the Jem'Hadar, since they would otherwise probably be ignored by the soldiers.
Exactly. The Jem'Hadar are literally built to be nothing more than killers. Killing is all they do - it's all they can ever do.

There can be only two choices: the Jem'Hadar killing only who the Founders tell them to (with the white) and killing everyone they meet whenever they feel like it (without the white), so I'm definitely on O'Brien's side in this.
The withdrawl is what causes them to be killing machines. Even on the White, they're really no more blood-thirsty than many Klingons or Cardassians that we've seen. The difference is that they'd be free from enslavement to the Founders. Once freed from an addiction to white, I'd assume that the Founders would stop making them, and kill off as many as possible, They'd engineer a 3.0 version too, closing whatever hole Bashir found I'd imagine.

What a Jem'hadar freed from the White would do can't be generalized because some claim to serve because they want to, some feel they have to, and some clearly rebel even with their addiction intact. Some seem content to chill on abandoned planets and some what to take over the galaxy on their own. Individuals would take their freedom differently.
__________________
Vote: RA Avatar Contest #21!
"He sings lounges? I'm not familiar with that musical form."
-Taran'atar, DS9-R Mission Gamma 3 --Save Taran'atar!
Marie1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 25 2013, 05:59 AM   #23
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Hippocratic Oath

^ But remember what I just said: Enslavement to the Founders is the only thing that keeps the Jem'Hadar from killing pretty much everybody. The Jem'Hadar were, in the most literal sense, bred to kill, and ONLY kill. That's all they can do - all they WANT to do. With the White, they only kill who the Founders tell them to - and if the Founders say don't kill anyone, then they don't kill anyone. Without the White, a Jem'Hadar would still have the desire to kill - even if he's not going through withdrawal - but then he could kill whomever and whenever he wanted to.

There are only two choices here:

- Jem'Hadar are addicted to White, and kill only designated targets as ordered

- Jem'Hadar are not addicted to White, and kill everyone they want to, whenever they want to do it

Now tell me, why would the second option ever be preferable to the first? Think about it. And remember, Goran'Agar doesn't count, since HE IS UNIQUE.
__________________
In labor news: Longshoremen walked off the piers today. Rescue operations are continuing.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:44 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.