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Old December 18 2013, 04:52 AM   #46
Davros
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Re: Judge Dredd 2012 movie.

Christopher wrote: View Post
^I think the point is that the Stallone movie recreated the comics' version of the uniform and equipment with great authenticity (even if little else was authentic). Whereas the Urban movie toned down the uniforms in favor of something more functional, less cartoony. Both have their merits, depending on what you're looking for.
Exactly
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Old December 18 2013, 09:49 AM   #47
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Re: Judge Dredd 2012 movie.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
What I remember of the Stallone movie was that it was very.... Stallone-y. ... Stallone in Judge Dredd might as well have been playing his character from "Demolition Man" or "Cliffhanger" or "Over the Top" or something.
...
The Stallone movie wasn't strictly "bad" from what little of it I remember it was just very... Stallone. And I suspect unsatisfying to fans of the character.
Well, that's just it. The makers of that movie weren't trying to adapt the comic faithfully so much as turn it into a vehicle for Stallone. Hence having Dredd's helmet removed for most of the movie, which is blasphemy to the comic's fans. (Actually I always thought that could've worked if he didn't have his helmet removed until he was tried and sentenced; then it would've been against his will and a sign of disgrace, so it would've been more in character. Although it would've conflicted with the comics' assertion that Dredd's face is unbearably horrible to look at. And no, I'm not going to take a cheap shot at Stallone at this point.)

I wouldn't call Karl Urban an unknown, not after his turns in Hercules, Xena, Lord of the Rings, and Star Trek. He's prominent enough to have gotten the lead role in the current Almost Human series. However, he's the kind of actor who can disappear into a role.
In fairness the Dredd is horribly disfigured notion is something referenced in the early comics, but was dropped after a couple of years, or at least isnt referenced. I think now its just the notion that removing his helmet would humanise him and somehow take away from this notion of him as ultimate justice.

I never actually had a huge problem with Stallone taking the helmet off, though like you say it should have been later in the film. Hell I dont even have a problem with Fergie (comedy sidekicks have been in Dredd since pretty near the beginning). I probably hate him kissing Hersehy more because thats the ultimate betrayal of the character as far as Im concerned.

Judge Dredd did a lot right, or at least tried to, it just threw too much in, all that was missing was the kitchen sinkwell Judge Death maybe! Rico, the Angel Gang, the ABC robot etcDredds pared down script is way better.

Guess were never going to see the Dark Judges on screen
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Old December 18 2013, 03:31 PM   #48
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Re: Judge Dredd 2012 movie.

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Just so my quote isn't taken out of context, I want to make clear that I was speaking of the two approaches to the design of the uniforms, not of the merits of the movies as a whole. I haven't seen the Stallone movie in a very long time so I'm not in the best position to judge, but I remember finding it mildly entertaining but ridiculous.
I haven't seen it in a few years myself, I do vaguely remember how over embellished the look of it was though, complete with (as Trekker mentioned) those awful shoulder wings.

I'm trying to decide whether to dig out the old DVD of it or not at this point.
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Old December 18 2013, 03:42 PM   #49
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Re: Judge Dredd 2012 movie.

I always liked the early Dredd comics (which I didn't discover till the '90s) because they were a somewhat satirical British take on the "decaying US urban crime wasteland" and vigilante vibe of the '70s, like Dirty Harry and Deathwish, and dystopias like Soylent Green, Rollerball and Death Race 2000. They had a kind of goofy over-the-top quality that, for me, is hard to recapture without picturing the context of that time. I don't remember a lot about the Stallone movie but it struck me as combining a more cartoony look with a fairly standard action movie formula, without much underlying humor or self-awareness.

The newer movie was a lot better, it handled the dark humor and questioned the whole justice/vigilantism thing much more effectively IMO. It went for realism too much to recapture the comics the way I picture them, but that was never likely to happen. Overall I found it pretty good, not great but better than I expected.
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Old December 18 2013, 05:30 PM   #50
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Re: Judge Dredd 2012 movie.

^I think it had just as much to do with the "decaying British urban crime wasteland" as the American one. The imagery of the city mega blocs were quite clearly inspired by council estate blocks that sprung up in the 60's and quickly became vertical slums by the 70's. But yes, it looked at it though the lenses of a sci-fi Dirty Harry satire.

As for the Dark Judges...part of me is glad that they'll probably never show up. You'd need a whole film just to set up the concept since they're very specific to the world of Dredd and have a back story all their own and another film to actually use them. You'd need a pretty strong pair of scripts to do that without it turning out like a bad Spider-Man movie. It's not like Dark Knight where the Joker is so iconic that you can just have him show up and do his thing. Also, if I'm honest, aside from the imagery, I never found the Dark Judges all that interesting. Pretty one-note characters that don't really do much beyond present a threat.

I think they were very wise in Dredd when they came up with Ma-Ma as the villain rather than try and adapt some popular villain from the comics. Plus they made her human in the sense that you understand her motivations and get a sense of who she is and what she went through to get were she is.
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Old December 18 2013, 06:10 PM   #51
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Re: Judge Dredd 2012 movie.

Reverend wrote: View Post
^I think it had just as much to do with the "decaying British urban crime wasteland" as the American one. The imagery of the city mega blocs were quite clearly inspired by council estate blocks that sprung up in the 60's and quickly became vertical slums by the 70's.
I am sure you're right, I just meant setting it in North America seemed to connect it with US popular entertainment in that vigilante vein. But certainly the commentary applied to Britain, there was a lot of labor/employment and capitalism-run-amok stuff in there IIRC, aside from the crime.
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Old December 19 2013, 02:45 AM   #52
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Re: Judge Dredd 2012 movie.

From the Abridged Script of the movie.

JUDGE KARL

Your assessment begins now. If you don't shoot at least fourteen guys in the face, that's an automatic fail. If at least one of those guys doesn't have a vagina, that's an automatic fail. If you get a single bruise on your angelic face, that's an automatic fail. If you ruin your professionally styled hair or smudge your professionally applied makeup, that's an automatic fail. And if you lose your magic judge gun that's an automatic fail. Any questions?

OLIVIA THIRLBY

Yeah, are you REALLY going to wear that stupid Angry Video Game Nerd Frown throughout the entire movie?


JUDGE KARL

FAIL! FUCKING AUTOMATIC FAIL!

OLIVIA THIRLBY

Alright alright I take it back! Gawd!
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Old December 19 2013, 10:46 AM   #53
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Re: Judge Dredd 2012 movie.

Of course what's interesting re Dredd is the turn the comics have taken. Whilst the Judges are still effectively a fascist dictatorship, Dredd has definitely mellowed, and often the Judges are portrayed as a necessary evil, and those who want democracy fall into three categories; the well-meaning honest ones, the terrorists, or those who are either clearly insane or just after celebrity.

Hell the best two elected mayors the City's ever had were A/ An Orang-utan, and B/ A serial killer!

As for the Dark Judges, yeah they’re a bit one dimensional, but you could argue Ma-Ma was too, in fact a large proportion of movie villains aren’t exactly fully fleshed out. In many ways the Dark Judges are perfect for a film. Just enough character and a singular raison d'etre, crime is committed by the living, therefore kill all the living and crime ceases to exist. Add in the fact that they could look stunning if done right, and could actually be darkly humorous if handled correctly (Mainly just Death), and you have a great marketing tool—just imagine these guys on a poster?



Imagine the T-shirts, the action figures etc.

Of course the trouble is they aren’t characters you can throw into a first film. You have to understand the world of Dredd, and the role of the Judges, before you can then see the concept of Judges taking to the terrifying extreme. There’s also the problem that Dredd was a very grounded film, so you probably do need an intermediate film that introduces some more bizarre elements to the world, before you then take a jump off the deep end.

In an ideal world Dredd would have taken a ton of money and Dredd 2 would have probably featured the Cursed Earth, and introduced some supernatural or otherworldly elements. Dredd 3 would have then been about the Dark Judges.
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Old December 19 2013, 05:34 PM   #54
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Re: Judge Dredd 2012 movie.

Interestingly, before it was revealed that Dredd was a clone of Fargo, the former Chief Judge's face was revealed in an early issue of 2000 AD.

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Old December 19 2013, 05:41 PM   #55
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Re: Judge Dredd 2012 movie.

Mister Spock wrote: View Post
Interestingly, before it was revealed that Dredd was a clone of Fargo, the former Chief Judge's face was revealed in an early issue of 2000 AD.
And he... looks a bit like Stallone.
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Old December 20 2013, 01:50 AM   #56
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Re: Judge Dredd 2012 movie.

I thought the Stallone movie captured the twisted satirical humor of the few Dredd strips I've read. Rob Schneider's character being sent to prison for tampering with city property to escape a firefight seemed like something out of those comics. Plus, MegaCity One and the bikes and the like seemed like comic material. (Not to say it didn't have its flaws...)

I'll have to catch it again but the new Dredd didn't seem like it really needed Judge Dredd to be the protagonist, it seemed like it could've worked just as well as an unlicensed near-future flick.
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Old December 20 2013, 03:01 AM   #57
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Re: Judge Dredd 2012 movie.

Before the movie the only experience I had with Judge Dredd was what I read on Wikipedia, so I went in with no real expectations and I absolutely loved the movie. It was one that I really regretted waiting for the DVD release.
Starkers wrote: View Post

In an ideal world Dredd would have taken a ton of money and Dredd 2 would have probably featured the Cursed Earth, and introduced some supernatural or otherworldly elements. Dredd 3 would have then been about the Dark Judges.
I read in a couple different places that the guy who directed the movie had hopped to do a second movie inolving the Cursed Earth, and I think he might have mentioned plans for Judge Death, so I think you're ideal was probably pretty close to what he had in mind.
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Old December 20 2013, 03:55 AM   #58
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Re: Judge Dredd 2012 movie.

JD wrote: View Post
Before the movie the only experience I had with Judge Dredd was what I read on Wikipedia, so I went in with no real expectations and I absolutely loved the movie. It was one that I really regretted waiting for the DVD release.
Same here, though I did see Judge Dredd. What struck me is that the movie was extremely focused and what really made it shine was the fact that it didn't add on romantic subplots, corny humor, etc. It was just a pure action movie.

It was the only movie in recent memory I saw where, when it ended, my first thought was, "I want more!"
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Old December 21 2013, 03:57 AM   #59
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Re: Judge Dredd 2012 movie.

It didn't do a lot, but what it did do, it did very well.
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Old December 21 2013, 10:24 PM   #60
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Re: Judge Dredd 2012 movie.

Mister Spock wrote: View Post
Interestingly, before it was revealed that Dredd was a clone of Fargo, the former Chief Judge's face was revealed in an early issue of 2000 AD.

We also saw (original) Rico's face in a few flashback stories - one thing that has never really been followed up on is that there are a number of clone lines used for Judges (the ones who aren't naturally born).
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