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Old January 18 2014, 06:50 PM   #16
JES
Captain
 
Location: Ocoee, Florida
Re: Nelson Mandela-class Diplomatic Courier

surak-toc wrote: View Post
the design so far is coming along nicely, the design from the top of it looks amazing, cannot wait for more, just a design point, would like it to have a little romulan influence
Thanks, happy to hear that.
Now that you mention that, I might give the nacelle pylons a hull plating design similar to the Akira class, which has a design that reminds me a little of the hull pattern on a Romulan ship.
Either that, or I might research both, and try a pattern that is a combination of the two. The hull and components however will remain unchanged from the concept. This is a Federation design after all. But I do appreciate ideas like this, and welcome them, even if I don't act on them.

Maurice wrote: View Post
The point I was making is that diplomatic vehicles are typically unarmed. Air Force One doesn't carry air to air missiles. Defensive countermeasures, yes, but weapons?
True, but Air Force One has never had to deal with mercenaries or pirates. I think that there are many space pirates who wouldn't think twice about kidnapping Federation dignitaries for ransom, or sell them to the Federation's enemies for political leverage.
Fortunately, it is very difficult to board an aircraft in mid-flight, but unfortunately, the same restrictions don't exist in space, and it is quite possible to damage a starship until they are rendered adrift, and then board that said starship, similar to how pirates can board ocean-going ships at sea.

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
The point I was making is that diplomatic vehicles are typically unarmed. Air Force One doesn't carry air to air missiles. Defensive countermeasures, yes, but weapons?
It always struck me as odd that there were so very few anti-torpedo countermeasures in Starfleet, aside from shields. Interceptor torpedoes and point defense phasers (like in ST:Armada) would have been neat. Even modern-day Fedex planes have countermeasure systems designed to feed incoming missiles a false target (like how O'Brien defeated the Cardassian weapons platforms) and then automatically signal air traffic control of the attack.
Actually, I believe that it was Malcolm Lu's Majestic class that introduced me to the idea of Point Defense Phasers, and the Legacy class and Madeinjapan's/Samuelson's Perception class have inspired me to make them standard equipment on any of my designs that are contemporary with the Legacy class and beyond.
It now makes sense to make tertiary weapons, similar in function to anti-air batteries on even todays warships (but especially the battleships of old that were covered in weapons), while the main phaser arrays focus on enemy warships.

Robbiesan wrote: View Post
Actually Mandela being the name of a diplomatic ship strikes me as odd given he's either a freedom fighter for the African National Congress or a terrorist to some ( he was caught with multiple explosive devices and given to necklacing the opposition [filling a tire full of jellied gasoline around an opponent's neck then igniting it]). Rather gruesome and hardly diplomatic.

I guess you mean his statesman years?
I guess so, since I've never heard of Mandela as violent in his political endeavors.

aloha62 wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
Am I the only one who thinks it's weird that a discussion about a "Diplomatic Courier" starts off by discussing its weaponry?

Kind of makes sense in this context, Mandela did start his career with murders, weapons and bombs.
And here I was rethinking the name, or the take of ship that would carry his name. But I guess that Teddy D. Roosevelt did say "walk softly, and carry a big stick", or something like that.

I appreciate the comments, and please don't be shy, because they encourage me to continue this long design process.
Tomorrow, I'll probably post the progress I've made this week
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Old January 18 2014, 08:53 PM   #17
Robbiesan
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Nelson Mandela-class Diplomatic Courier

Mandela is/was well known today as the leader of the ANC who overcame decades of imprisonment to become the head of South Africa and an important world leader. Most know him because of the struggle of all colored people (not my term) and imposed by the Dutch Afrikaaner controled South African government as a result of apartheid.

What's not well known is that he was caught with lots of explosive devices, ordered lots of bombings himself, married a person who did some of the most heinous things committed by the ANC, was a Communist but wouldn't publicly admit it in his written biography though a leaked and authenticated biography admits this, and would never condemn the terrorist actions committed by the ANC. He also purchased enormous amounts of armaments after becoming a leader in his country.

Do some checking as to the state of South Africa today especially regarding the number of murders. It's appalling. Apatheid was horrifically bad and affected folks who were Asian and Indian as well as African or combinations of those things even in the most miniscule amounts. But all of that has to be measured within an honest appraisal of history and seeing Mandela for who he was completely.

There's nothing wrong with your art. It's creative and beautiful. But naming a diplomatic ship the Nelson Mandela is rather like naming a diplomatic ship the Ariel Sharon. It would be as controversial.

Desmond Tutu would be entirely appropriate, an almost saintly man, known for trying valiently to end apartheid, respected by almost everyone, etc.
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Old January 20 2014, 08:34 PM   #18
JES
Captain
 
Location: Ocoee, Florida
Re: Nelson Mandela-class Diplomatic Courier

Robbiesan wrote: View Post
Mandela is/was well known today as the leader of the ANC who overcame decades of imprisonment to become the head of South Africa and an important world leader. Most know him because of the struggle of all colored people (not my term) and imposed by the Dutch Afrikaaner controled South African government as a result of apartheid.

What's not well known is that he was caught with lots of explosive devices, ordered lots of bombings himself, married a person who did some of the most heinous things committed by the ANC, was a Communist but wouldn't publicly admit it in his written biography though a leaked and authenticated biography admits this, and would never condemn the terrorist actions committed by the ANC. He also purchased enormous amounts of armaments after becoming a leader in his country.

Do some checking as to the state of South Africa today especially regarding the number of murders. It's appalling. Apatheid was horrifically bad and affected folks who were Asian and Indian as well as African or combinations of those things even in the most miniscule amounts. But all of that has to be measured within an honest appraisal of history and seeing Mandela for who he was completely.

There's nothing wrong with your art. It's creative and beautiful. But naming a diplomatic ship the Nelson Mandela is rather like naming a diplomatic ship the Ariel Sharon. It would be as controversial.

Desmond Tutu would be entirely appropriate, an almost saintly man, known for trying valiently to end apartheid, respected by almost everyone, etc.
In light of this, I have to reconsider at least the class name of this Diplomatic Courier, and for now, I think that this ship will carry the name Desmond Tutu, due to Robbiesan's recommendation, unless someone has a better idea, or thinks that in light of this, the Nelson Mandela should still be a diplomatic vessel.

The Federation and Starfleet would no doubt measure the worth of one of their starships after a person based on their cumulative actions and beliefs, and those actions and beliefs would determine the type of starship a person would be named after. The Federation would put more merit in truth more than reputation.

What type of vessel should carry the name (if any) is up for suggestion, and if so, might be a future project.

Once it has been decided what to do with this information, this starship class's data will be changed as well to reflect these final decisions.

No doubt I will need help figuring out what (if anything) I should do with the above information, but I'm sure I'll muddle on through with enough helpful comments and suggestions.

I suppose I might also have to change the name of this thread... Anyone know if that is possible?

Anyhow, on to last weeks update:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/4044567...n/photostream/

The major change for this week was moving the pylon impulse drives aft-wards, to blend better with the nacelle pylons themselves, which were also tweaked a bit to in turn blend a little better with the pylon impulse drives.
I've unfortunately noticed that the pencil work scanned in a little too lightly to be very visible (which are really darker then they appear). I am not looking forwards to have to go over with a darker pencil, especially since I don't consider half of the sketching "finalized", but what else can I do...

Among the other added details are some of the RCS thrusters, what is probably the last of the dorsal weapons hatches, and red caution marking.

I've considered starting to trace everything in Illustrator a next logical step, rather than starting on the other angles, and most likely getting flustered with trying to get every to stay lined up. I'd probably use Sketch-Up by now if my laptop didn't wasn't slow in Illustrator, but it is... It is trying to get all of the angles to match up that I'm not looking forward to, and has caused me to give up in the past, but we'll see...

Anyhow, as I've said, comments and suggestions are as always, encouraged and encouraging, so please, drop by for a few minutes if you can!
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