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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old December 29 2013, 03:34 PM   #46
iguana_tonante
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

Spirit of Christmas Present wrote: View Post
Like everyone you are entitled to your own opinion
But, as the saying goes, you are not entitled to your own facts. I get what you are saying, and I don't necessarily disagree with your main point. I just want to make sure the discussion is framed in actual science and not some wacky mumbo-jumbo.

Bolt! Ya Nugget wrote: View Post
Your argument with Iguana can be summarised thus.

Rhubarb: Fairies!
Iguana: No
Rhubarb: But.. but.. Fairies!
Truth to be told, most of my arguments can be summarised like that.
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Old January 4 2014, 01:00 PM   #47
Rhubarbodendron
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

LOL I agree On both points, actually.

Happy New Year to all of you! (yes I'm late - just returned from my parents. Ahh, having one's own computer: bliss!)


One factor why my replies might occasionally sound unscientific is that in most areas (except for Biology and Medicine) I lack the necessary English techno-babble. My fluent use of the language and the fact that I have a better command of the grammar than many native speakers quite effectively camouflage that I have a very limited vocabulary. If you took all my posts and ran a computer analysis on them you'd find that I use very few words - I'd be surprised if it were as many as 500 (again, with the exception of my posts on Biology and Medicine). This forces me to express myself in a rather simple way that may sound lay-ish. It's also the reason why I frequently use tons of smilies, analogies and examples.

Reason B is that I often can't find a scientific text in English in a hurry. I'll try to improve at least on that one. (And there I vowed not to make any new years resolutions *sigh* - goes to show that one must never take anything for granted LOL).



From my point of view the discussion usually is:

me: *points to sky* Fairies!
you: No!
me: *searching frantically in dictionary*Elves? Nymphs? - You know: winged people, obsession with justice...
you: *getting out binoculars* Batman and Superman!
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Old January 4 2014, 01:22 PM   #48
Deckerd
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

My joke was not a sideswipe at your vocab.
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Old January 4 2014, 07:41 PM   #49
iguana_tonante
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

Especially since Deckerd is not a native speaker either. She speaks Scottish, you know.
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Old January 5 2014, 01:03 AM   #50
Gov Karnstein
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Spirit of Christmas Present wrote: View Post
Like everyone you are entitled to your own opinion
But, as the saying goes, you are not entitled to your own facts. I get what you are saying, and I don't necessarily disagree with your main point. I just want to make sure the discussion is framed in actual science and not some wacky mumbo-jumbo.
Exactly. Intelligebt Design gets far too much attention given to it by appealing to teach the controversy. There really is none, but people give ID, as scientific as Plasma Cosmology, attention it doesn't deserve.
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Old January 5 2014, 02:38 PM   #51
Rhubarbodendron
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

Deckerd wrote: View Post
My joke was not a sideswipe at your vocab.
rest assured, I was aware of that. I just don't take any bait. You need to dangle at least an oatmeal cookie or a ginger parlie in front of my nose, instead of a haggis.
But if it comforts you, I'll say that 'Se bleigeard a th'annad
iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Especially since Deckerd is not a native speaker either. She speaks Scottish, you know.
LOL! Now, that's almost racist.
Shall I hold him while you spank him, Deckerd?


Gov Kodos, I am not sure if the idea of Intelligent Design could be proved even if one tried very hard. Like all religious stuff it's a matter of belief.

Personally (and as a biologist) I very much disbelieve in both ID and all sorts of gods. From my point of view it's simply so that there are coincidential variations and that the individuum carrying the most successful one has the best chance to survive and pass on that particular mutation. This way, gradually, a whole species adapts to its environment.
The problem is that except for rapidly propagating species like viruses and bacteria this adaption works too slow to balance out the human changes on the ecosystem. To give one example: had the Dodo been subjected to moderate hunting over milennia, it might propably have regained its ability to fly or it would have developed the ability to run quickly. Not having been used to any predators (least of all human ones), the whole species was eaten up within 64 years (discovered in 1598, last sighting in 1662).
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Last edited by Rhubarbodendron; January 5 2014 at 02:51 PM.
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Old January 6 2014, 07:31 PM   #52
PurpleBuddha
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

Rhubarbodendron wrote: View Post
Gov Kodos, I am not sure if the idea of Intelligent Design could be proved even if one tried very hard. Like all religious stuff it's a matter of belief.
Why not? If some being, beings or intelligence created the universe, I would imagine it should be something we could one day prove. Of course, I think the hypothesis is flawed but would be interested to hear your reasoning as to why it is something that we could not use the scientific method to uncover (assuming it were really true).
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Old January 6 2014, 09:52 PM   #53
Gov Karnstein
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

PurpleBuddha wrote: View Post
Rhubarbodendron wrote: View Post
Gov Kodos, I am not sure if the idea of Intelligent Design could be proved even if one tried very hard. Like all religious stuff it's a matter of belief.
Why not? If some being, beings or intelligence created the universe, I would imagine it should be something we could one day prove. Of course, I think the hypothesis is flawed but would be interested to hear your reasoning as to why it is something that we could not use the scientific method to uncover (assuming it were really true).
No. It's on them to prove their hypothesis.
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Old January 6 2014, 11:52 PM   #54
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
PurpleBuddha wrote: View Post
Rhubarbodendron wrote: View Post
Gov Kodos, I am not sure if the idea of Intelligent Design could be proved even if one tried very hard. Like all religious stuff it's a matter of belief.
Why not? If some being, beings or intelligence created the universe, I would imagine it should be something we could one day prove. Of course, I think the hypothesis is flawed but would be interested to hear your reasoning as to why it is something that we could not use the scientific method to uncover (assuming it were really true).
No. It's on them to prove their hypothesis.
If there is evidence that supports it, then, if it were found, it would support it. That's what I see PurpleBuddha as saying.

However, no such evidence has been found, so ID has no evidential support. Since those pushing ID falsely claim that it does have support, Gov Kodos is right to keep the burden of proof on them. I think he's being too generous to characterize their claim as a hypothesis.
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Old January 7 2014, 12:22 AM   #55
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

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I think he's being too generous to characterize their claim as a hypothesis.
A scientific hypothesis has to be disprovable.
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Old January 7 2014, 01:20 AM   #56
Gov Karnstein
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

gturner wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
I think he's being too generous to characterize their claim as a hypothesis.
A scientific hypothesis has to be disprovable.
There's that, too. ID is a dodge to teach Creationism. If one wants to be more cynical, it is a version of what Hannah Arendt wrote about totalitarian movements transforming 'All is Allowed' into 'All is possible'. Science does not work that way. We don't know, therefore god, is not a proof.
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Old January 7 2014, 07:13 PM   #57
Rhubarbodendron
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

PurpleBuddha wrote: View Post
Rhubarbodendron wrote: View Post
Gov Kodos, I am not sure if the idea of Intelligent Design could be proved even if one tried very hard. Like all religious stuff it's a matter of belief.
Why not? If some being, beings or intelligence created the universe, I would imagine it should be something we could one day prove. Of course, I think the hypothesis is flawed but would be interested to hear your reasoning as to why it is something that we could not use the scientific method to uncover (assuming it were really true).
That's exactly the problem. The part in brackets, I mean. Assuming it were not true, how could we possibly prove that deities do *not* exist?
Personally, I am convinced that there is no such thing as a god or a goddess. But like the convictions of religious people this is merely a personal belief and nothing we can prove or have any chance of being able to prove in the future.
So imho unless/until a deity comes forward, everyone is free to believe or disbelieve whatever they like.
Given the Zeitgeist however, I fear that even if for example Jesus, Zeus or Aea would return, they'd put him in a talkshow for freaks and afterwards into a loonie asylum. If he'd work a miracle, at least 5 governments would immediately try to kidnap him and use him as a super-weapon against everyone else.
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Old January 7 2014, 08:03 PM   #58
Creepy Critter
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

Rhubarbodendron wrote: View Post
PurpleBuddha wrote: View Post
Rhubarbodendron wrote: View Post
Gov Kodos, I am not sure if the idea of Intelligent Design could be proved even if one tried very hard. Like all religious stuff it's a matter of belief.
Why not? If some being, beings or intelligence created the universe, I would imagine it should be something we could one day prove. Of course, I think the hypothesis is flawed but would be interested to hear your reasoning as to why it is something that we could not use the scientific method to uncover (assuming it were really true).
That's exactly the problem. The part in brackets, I mean. Assuming it were not true, how could we possibly prove that deities do *not* exist?
Personally, I am convinced that there is no such thing as a god or a goddess. But like the convictions of religious people this is merely a personal belief and nothing we can prove or have any chance of being able to prove in the future.
So imho unless/until a deity comes forward, everyone is free to believe or disbelieve whatever they like.
Given the Zeitgeist however, I fear that even if for example Jesus, Zeus or Aea would return, they'd put him in a talkshow for freaks and afterwards into a loonie asylum. If he'd work a miracle, at least 5 governments would immediately try to kidnap him and use him as a super-weapon against everyone else.
You wouldn't have to worry about the US. We'd just store him in a big warehouse of crates.
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Old January 8 2014, 07:51 AM   #59
PurpleBuddha
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

gturner wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
I think he's being too generous to characterize their claim as a hypothesis.
A scientific hypothesis has to be disprovable.
Agreed. It is not disprovable at the moment so calling it a hypothesis was too generous. I should have referred to it as a notion instead. I am certainly no supporter of ID claims.
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