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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old December 18 2013, 05:29 PM   #31
Olive, the Other Reindeer
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

gturner wrote: View Post
Maxwell Montes on Venus is 11 km tall and a human could survive the pressure there (about 43 atmospheres), but the temperature is still going to be over 600 F.
Maxwell Montes? Wasn't he a popular Cuban bandleader back in the '50s?
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Old December 18 2013, 08:00 PM   #32
gturner
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

Venus has a bunch of very odd names. Aside from three features named after men, all the mountains are named after female deities from a wide variety of cultures, giving us gems like Yunya-mana mons, Wyrd mons, Waka mons, Laka mons, Ozza mons...
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Old December 18 2013, 08:10 PM   #33
rhubarbodendron
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

that's interesting. Do you happen to know why there are the three male exceptions?
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Old December 18 2013, 08:44 PM   #34
gturner
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

Some of the history of the names is in the Maxwell Montes wiki.

By using radar to probe through the permanent and thick clouds in the Venusian atmosphere and make observations of the surface, scientists at the American Arecibo Radio Telescope in Puerto Rico discovered the extensive highland on Venus that came to be called Maxwell Montes in 1967.

...

Maxwell Montes is named for James Clerk Maxwell whose work in mathematical physics predicted the existence of radio waves, which made radar possible, and hence the surface observations of Venus possible.

Maxwell Montes, Alpha Regio, and Beta Regio are the three exceptions to the rule that the surface features of Venus are to be named for females: women or goddesses.
Alpha and Beta Regio are huge highland regions that were discovered by radar earlier in the 1960's, and at that time they just denoted the two features with Greek letters.

List of Montes on Venus.
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Old December 18 2013, 09:50 PM   #35
rhubarbodendron
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

Cool Actually, Mr. Maxwell is the only exception since the Latin word Regio (region, area) is a female noun.
(LOL who'd have thought that after 35 years I might need my Latin again as my old teacher always predicted! - Life itself is pretty sarcastic at times, isn't it? )
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Old December 18 2013, 10:51 PM   #36
iguana_tonante
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

gturner wrote: View Post
Venus has a bunch of very odd names. Aside from three features named after men, all the mountains are named after female deities from a wide variety of cultures, giving us gems like Yunya-mana mons, Wyrd mons, Waka mons, Laka mons, Ozza mons...
All that, and miss the obvious mons veneris joke...
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Old December 18 2013, 11:16 PM   #37
gturner
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

I figured it was too easy. Instead, I present this illustration of the risks inherent in lunar exploration.

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Old December 20 2013, 11:15 AM   #38
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
No.
And no.
That's your entire reply? Don't be so condescending. You don't have to be sold on plasma cosmology, but if you're honest, you'll admit to the various ways the gravity-driven fusion model of the Sun doesn't work. Don't confuse conjecture with fact.
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Old December 20 2013, 05:05 PM   #39
iguana_tonante
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

Metryq wrote: View Post
iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
No.
And no.
That's your entire reply?
Yes.
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Old December 21 2013, 07:12 AM   #40
rhubarbodendron
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

That's a bit of a meagre reply, in both instances. Please elaborate. If you don't explain what you mean you can hardly expect to convince anyone of your view (which usually is the point of a discussion) nor will anyone take you serious (which I daresay would hurt your ego). Just posting to say "no" or "yes" bears the danger to be interpreted as spamming.

(inoltre: se siete così pigri, la Befana non vi farà visita )
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Old December 22 2013, 10:13 PM   #41
iguana_tonante
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

Thanks for the advice, mom. I will give it all the consideration it deserves.

I have no intention of convincing anyone. A couple of university courses on actual cosmology and plasma physics will do exceptionally well in that regard. I just want to warn the uninitiated against wasting their time reading garbage when they could be doing something more constructive, like educating themselves on actual astrophysics.

The so pompously-called "plasma cosmology" is crank science, plain and simple. It's an old, discredited theory that somehow found its way and became the pet theory of a vocal cadre of wannabe cosmologist without formal training. Giving it more consideration than that is playing into their hands. Like so many other "unorthodox theories", they want to present it as a credible alternative, arguing for "teaching the controversy", presenting "both sides" of the issue. It's crap.

I'm sorry to sound harsh (no, I'm not), but I have little patience for people who wrap themselves in the mantle of science and yet fail to follow it most sacred rule: whatever your feelings on the matter, hypotheses that have been rejected must be allowed to die.

Science is a ferociously darwinist endeavour: to keep discredited theories alive is doing a disservice to science, and to the public understanding of it, which is a topic close to my heart, not to mention one of my duties at my job.

Inoltre, la befana è già arrivata a farmi visita da queste parti, a quanto pare, quindi non si dia pena per me, signora.
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Old December 28 2013, 04:47 PM   #42
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

I mostly agree with you, except for two minor point: hypotheses that have been rejected must either be allowed to die or proven to be correct after all.
Example: Galilei's theories about the Earth orbiting Sun were rejected. Yet they were correct and the rejection was wrong.

Secondly (this is only my personal opinion, not a theory or thesis), I think it can be very fruitful to discuss with laypersons. They often offer a fresh perspecive that the expert might have completel overlooked, being burried too deeply in a matter. We tend to take things we believe in for granted, even if there is no definite proof. Outsiders who have a different approach can in such instances be very helpful at correcting our perspective. That's why I love discussing controversial things with others. It offers a new perspective (often to both parties). For example: in the other thread, I was very shocked at the casual use of "Nazi" which in my country is as bad an insult as (please excuse me) "motherfucker" in the US. American board members, in turn, were shocked by my casual use of a referrebce to Hitler's development from painter to dictator which is used just as casually (and proverbially, even) in my country. In this instance, both parties were not aware of (and hurt by) the casual use of certain phrases in the respective other country. By discussing it, both parties learned a new perspective. Intellectual gain for both parties, imho. A win/win situation.


La Befana è troppo presto! Forse la cometa li ha confusa
[Sorry about my bad Italian. I really should make an effort to learn it properly. Please tell me if I make a mistake. I never had lessons, just caught a few words here and there. Plus I did my A-levels in Latin (among others). Am a big fan of Apicius and Martial ]
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Old December 28 2013, 10:59 PM   #43
iguana_tonante
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

Spirit of Christmas Present wrote: View Post
I mostly agree with you, except for two minor point: hypotheses that have been rejected must either be allowed to die or proven to be correct after all.
Example: Galilei's theories about the Earth orbiting Sun were rejected. Yet they were correct and the rejection was wrong.
Uh, Galilei's theories were not rejected by scientific methods, they were censored by religious dogma. That's, like, the opposite of science.

Spirit of Christmas Present wrote: View Post
Secondly (this is only my personal opinion, not a theory or thesis), I think it can be very fruitful to discuss with laypersons. They often offer a fresh perspecive that the expert might have completel overlooked, being burried too deeply in a matter.
Well, of course it can be useful to discuss things with laypeople: if nothing else, it helps you to better frame your arguments and improve your communication skills. But it's not the same thing as a layperson actually having a revelation on some scientific topic and making it works. I will not have "an intuition" and tell a doctor how to cure a illness, or a carpenter how to build a table, a musician how to play their instrument, or a layer how to conduct their trials. I don't see why someone should tell a scientist how to do their research, and insist on being right while all the scientific community is wrong.

Spirit of Christmas Present wrote: View Post
For example: in the other thread, I was very shocked at the casual use of "Nazi" which in my country is as bad an insult as (please excuse me) "motherfucker" in the US. American board members, in turn, were shocked by my casual use of a referrebce to Hitler's development from painter to dictator which is used just as casually (and proverbially, even) in my country.
Actually, I don't think that's what happened.
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Old December 29 2013, 11:38 AM   #44
rhubarbodendron
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

Like everyone you are entitled to your own opinion and all I can do is attempt to convince you by logic - which is somewhat difficult with such an emotionally charged topic. But this would lead us too far away from the thread's topic. Would you agree to take it to PM to discuss it further?


Religious censorship has indeed always been a big problem with scientific developments. Yet, in that particular case, there had been rather good points in favour of the churche's position: the geocentic theory had been the prevailing and generally accepted one for over a millennium at that time. The Church just used their influence to enforce that thesis beyond its "best before date".


These examples about intuition and correcting experts are really very good. I wouldn't dream of denying them. But those were not what I had meant. What I meant to say (and propably expressed clumsily) was that experts often think like moving on railroad tracks. We take things for granted without questioning them and the very idea to look at a problem from a different angle sometimes doesn't occur to us.
Laypersons don't have these limitations. They tend to view and tackle problems unbiasedly and often naively. This way they occasionally unconsciousely point us in the right direction to find a previousely overlooked detail that can proove useful for our research.
I am not sure if I explained that well. We sometimes stand in our own way and don't see the forrest for the trees. Laypeople just take a balloon and discover the forrest from above.
LOL ok, that doesn't make much sense either, I fear. But I trust you are intelligent enough to get at least a vague idea of what I mean.


(I'm not sure when I can borrow my dad's computer again. Might be a few days. Please don't feel offended if I don't reply immediately. Have a Happy New year!!)
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Old December 29 2013, 11:57 AM   #45
Deckerd
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Re: Potential Habitable Planets

Your argument with Iguana can be summarised thus.

Rhubarb: Fairies!
Iguana: No
Rhubarb: But.. but.. Fairies!
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