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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old December 11 2013, 03:56 PM   #31
ssosmcin
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Okay. I wasn't so much defending the quality of his science fiction work; I was just puzzled by your comment that "his element" was some genre other than SF, and I was wondering what genre you meant. Your second paragraph clears that up.
Cool. And I still feel, even with all that, he did the best he could in a really bad situation. A lot of concepts fans loved came out of that year. If I had any complaints, it was over the plethora of love stories. Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scotty each had one and they all had to step out of character to do it. At least Kirk, Spock and McCoy had other stimuli influencing their behavior. Scotty was just sappy.
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Old December 11 2013, 04:47 PM   #32
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

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The whole concept of the Moon flying through space has to be just ignored to focus on an episode's given story. Otherwise the whole thing falls apart. This really was a case of someone having an idea and not really thinking it through. No respectable SF writer would have conceived of such a thing.
Well, James Blish did tolerably well with it.
If you're referring to Cities in Flight, the mass of, say, Manhattan Island is minuscule compared to the mass of the Moon. It's like the difference between moving a boulder and moving a mountain.


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It reached it's nadir with "The Mark Of Gideon", where the need to place the script on the regular sets resulted in a glaring plot hole that has been rightly criticized over the years (how could an overpopulated planet build a replica of a ship the size of the Enterprise anyway?)?
It was probably the first holodeck.
Well, not the first, since the Xyrillians had them by 2151. But yes, that's how I rationalize the Gideon duplicate.
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Old December 11 2013, 05:12 PM   #33
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

The holodeck idea is still flawed because it still hinges on having exact recordings of the Enterprise. That means familiar wear marks and scratches on floors, equipment and such and the inclusion of the crews' personal touches. Otherwise it just makes no sense whatsoever. Kirk only had to go to his own quarters to see something was off.

The only way this could possibly work is if Kirk's mind were being manipulated with drugs or some other agent to distort his perceptions of reality so that he wouldn't really notice that things weren't right.

It happens again in "Requiem For Methuselah." The only plausible way Kirk could fall for Rayna so hard and so fast is if his mind had been tampered with. Maybe when they all drank Flint's liqour is when Kirk could have been drugged. Something like that is the only way to buy into Kirk's suvsequent behaviour.
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Old December 12 2013, 12:35 AM   #34
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?



Can it match?
Ask Isaac Asimov (http://catacombs.space1999.net/press/vxasimov2.html) and Michael Jahn (http://catacombs.space1999.net/press/wrefpcue.html)!
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Old December 12 2013, 12:38 AM   #35
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

During my revisit I will say there were parts of Space: 1999 that were batter than I expected and remembered. But that being said none of it was ever near what could be found in TOS.
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Old December 12 2013, 04:08 AM   #36
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

Space: 1999 came on in 1975. Star Trek was still exciting and futuristic at the time, if not quite edgy anymore, but we had every episode memorized. Its pleasures were now part and parcel with its familiarity.

This was two years before Star Wars would come out and kick off an avalanche of sci-fi on TV. There was very little to choose from on TV in general (with only four channels or so), and next to no sci-fi.

So when Space: 1999 was in first run, I thought it was a great show. I was hungry for space adventure and on top of that, as a kid my critical faculties were not fully developed yet. I accepted the show on its own terms.

If I sat through The Starlost, you can be pretty sure Space: 1999 seemed like a masterpiece.
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Old December 12 2013, 04:13 AM   #37
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

See, I couldn't sit through The Starlost. As a Canadian kid I was somewhat intrigued about a Canadian produced sci-fi series. But, alas, The Starlost was brutal. And back in the day I didn't think 1999 was much better.
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Old December 12 2013, 04:20 AM   #38
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

I think I managed to miss The Starlost, or if I ever saw any of it, it didn't leave a clear impression. But I watched Space: 1999, and I seem to recall liking it enough, but I didn't have much taste as a kid. I was aware, though, how absurd its premise was.
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Old December 12 2013, 04:38 AM   #39
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

Christopher wrote: View Post
I think I managed to miss The Starlost, or if I ever saw any of it, it didn't leave a clear impression. But I watched Space: 1999, and I seem to recall liking it enough, but I didn't have much taste as a kid. I was aware, though, how absurd its premise was.

Nobody has much taste as a kid! Maybe that's why I watched all those sci-fi bandwagon shows that came out after Star Wars (although I still say some of them were good). And maybe that's why the Star Wars prequels and JJ-Trek are such big hits with fans younger than me.
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Old December 12 2013, 04:41 AM   #40
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

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I think I managed to miss The Starlost, or if I ever saw any of it, it didn't leave a clear impression.
Then you were spared, my friend.

In all fairness what I recall of the premise wasn't bad in itself, but the execution was brutal. The idea that these inhabitants (three of them anyway) aboard a generation ship (with no understanding that they are aboard a space ship) inadvertently learn the true nature of their existence and that the ship is in danger. They then take it upon themselves to search for a way to save the ship and everyone aboard even though most don't believe they are actually living in an artificial world.
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Old December 12 2013, 08:06 AM   #41
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

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In all fairness what I recall of the premise wasn't bad in itself, but the execution was brutal. The idea that these inhabitants (three of them anyway) aboard a generation ship (with no understanding that they are aboard a space ship) inadvertently learn the true nature of their existence and that the ship is in danger. They then take it upon themselves to search for a way to save the ship and everyone aboard even though most don't believe they are actually living in an artificial world.
If you liked the premise, Ellison expanded its original screeplay for the series much better in Phoenix Without Ashes.
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Old December 12 2013, 08:08 AM   #42
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Nebusj wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
The whole concept of the Moon flying through space has to be just ignored to focus on an episode's given story. Otherwise the whole thing falls apart. This really was a case of someone having an idea and not really thinking it through. No respectable SF writer would have conceived of such a thing.
Well, James Blish did tolerably well with it.
If you're referring to Cities in Flight, the mass of, say, Manhattan Island is minuscule compared to the mass of the Moon. It's like the difference between moving a boulder and moving a mountain.
You've forgotten some of Earthman, Come Home (understandably, as the book is rather overpacked). Amalfi and the New Yorkers use spindizzy drives to send the planet He hurtling into deep space, on contract; and they later use the same gimmick to destroy Vega's Orbital Fortress by hitting it with a planet. The New Yorkers even ride the latter planet off to the Greater Magellanic Cloud.

In The Triumph Of Time we learn the Hevians have mastered the control of their spindizzies and used the planet to visit a region of intergalactic space where the universe is coming to an end, too.

(I'd be very surprised if Doc Smith or Edmund Hamilton didn't do some planet-flinging, too, but I'm not well-read in either. Smith might have just leapt right to warring parties tossing universes at one another anyway.)
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Old December 12 2013, 12:53 PM   #43
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

Christopher wrote: View Post
I think I managed to miss The Starlost, or if I ever saw any of it, it didn't leave a clear impression. But I watched Space: 1999, and I seem to recall liking it enough, but I didn't have much taste as a kid. I was aware, though, how absurd its premise was.
Yes I remember liking it as a child too. I came in at the 2nd or 3rd episode so for all I know they had some valid explanation for what happened.
I liked the cast, the commanders, the professor guy and they had an Aussie in it until Maya appeared (but I liked her too).
And I'm a sucker for those Pommie spaceships (the Eagle I think).
I haven't seen it since its initial run so maybe I wouldn't like it nowadays.
I'm thinking now how fast must Luna be travelling (approx 50 times the speed of light I'm guessing). Then how fast must those Eagle spaceships be able to travel if they go to an inhabited planet every week, muck about there and then catch up with Luna. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong though.
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Old December 12 2013, 01:25 PM   #44
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

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If you liked the premise, Ellison expanded its original screeplay for the series much better in [Phoenix Without Ashes].
I happen to like reading Ellison, but I read that comic adaptation and found it utterly meh.
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Old December 12 2013, 05:09 PM   #45
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

I've never gotten through the Ed Bryant authorized novelization either, though Ellison's long intro is worth reading.

The real gem that came out of STARLOST is Ben Bova's novel THE STARCROSSED, which is kind of a futuristic comic spin (in the vein of NETWORK) on THE STARLOST. If you find the 70s-era paperback, there is a picture of the lead character on the cover that is unmistakably Ellison. Bova worked on the show for awhile too, as did Doug Trumbull. Talk about squandering a wealth of talent!
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