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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old December 23 2013, 11:05 PM   #211
Andrew_Kearley
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

middyseafort wrote: View Post
According to the original website, that I mentioned being taken down, episodes would have been retitled and reordered as well to create a more of an "arc". It also had more extensive videos of entire redone scenes: http://web.archive.org/web/201109140...isode_1_01.htm
Of course, the thing is, that Space 2099 thing was really nothing more than a fan re-edit - and there's nothing wrong with that. It's a perfectly legitimate form of fandom expression. I think the originators of the project got a bit up themselves with their idea that they could sell the proposal back to the rights owners as a revamp of the show. Some of the retitling and re-editing jarred with me, because when you start changing the context and meaning of the episodes to fit a newly conceived "arc", then you're going to alienate others who have a different take on the series. Again, that's fine to do as a fan project, a bit different when you try to make it "official". Not that there's anything wrong with re-ordering the episodes to try and make something a bit more cohesive out of it - it's not as if the show has any sort of definitive running order in any case - and indeed, this is the sort of thing that fandom is supposed to do - interacting with the show rather than just receiving it blindly. (And let's face it, it's something I did myself long ago. See here.) So I've mixed feelings about the project really - I would support any creative fan project, as long as we're clear that that's what it is.
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Old December 24 2013, 09:44 AM   #212
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
It may be that many of the students are of color and don't relate to all-white cast of said older movies (particularly when said movies feature people of color in subservient roles to whites.) I don't think that something being in black and white is bad to them as much as it's the movie that they might object to, IMHO.
This is certainly valid, especially when it comes to films produced during the heyday of the Hollywood studio system (which is not to say, of course, that Hollywood doesn't have a significant way to go in terms of diversity).

But, my observation wasn't that the students I've observed can't sit through older films -- I was pointing out that many of them (indeed, the vast majority in my experience) haven't seen films made before they were born. Which, for the current crop of university students, means they haven't seen many films made before the 1990s.

(Keep in mind that I'm 26).
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Old December 24 2013, 03:12 PM   #213
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

There is an embarrasing scene in Mr. Smith with some train porters. I always point that out to students btw. My students are mainly not of any color other than pale whitish pink, here in Northern Michigan. No, I think it is that in our culture "old" = "worse" for the most part. (They were amazed when I busted out my 2001 clamshell iBook, which I use for a word processor and music writing laptop, both of which function perfectly. But old technology -- and tech is the totem of our society -- almost always IS worse.

As to b/w movies, they do signal "old" movie, which, granted, is a different style of movie than Saw 3 or Transformers 7 or ... STID. (KIDDING: Couldn't help it.) People like what they're used to, and older movies require more attention and listening ... not our culture's strong suits.

Be well, everyone. We're off to my wife's family's homestead (yes, it's old for Christmas Eve, and I just got a good news checkup at the eye surgeon yesterday. Feeling pretty merry, so well wishes to you, whatever your holiday preferences (if any) may be!
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Old December 24 2013, 06:13 PM   #214
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

That Space:2099 thing is incredibly weird, but I've gotta admit, I would be intrigued to see it... just out of morbid curisosity for how it could present the very same material so differently, like. Might have been interesting (if somewhat fruitless ultimately).
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Old December 24 2013, 08:42 PM   #215
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

I scanned the 2099 episode proposals and ugh. Just ugh.
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Old December 24 2013, 08:57 PM   #216
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

Christopher wrote: View Post
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I just checked around and according to trekweb, Ed Gross' STAR TREK THE LOST YEARS has the Colla interview about THE GOD THING.
Oh, darn... I think I used to have that book, but I sold it off years ago, because I felt the Reeves-Stevenses' Phase II book covered most of the same ground and I was running out of shelf space.
I think some of the material might have found its way into THE MAKING OF THE TREK FILMS book (which is definitely worth getting if you want to get rid of old CFQ issues, because most of that stuff is in the book too.)

The R-S book has good info that wasn't available to Gross, but like ART OF, there are some gaps & some errors (even some of the illustrations are captioned wrong -- for instance, they have an exact representation of vger - pretty much what you see in the DE - identified as an early unused design.)
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Old December 25 2013, 06:36 AM   #217
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

Harvey wrote: View Post
Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
It may be that many of the students are of color and don't relate to all-white cast of said older movies (particularly when said movies feature people of color in subservient roles to whites.) I don't think that something being in black and white is bad to them as much as it's the movie that they might object to, IMHO.
This is certainly valid, especially when it comes to films produced during the heyday of the Hollywood studio system (which is not to say, of course, that Hollywood doesn't have a significant way to go in terms of diversity).

But, my observation wasn't that the students I've observed can't sit through older films -- I was pointing out that many of them (indeed, the vast majority in my experience) haven't seen films made before they were born. Which, for the current crop of university students, means they haven't seen many films made before the 1990s.

(Keep in mind that I'm 26).
My 17 yr old boy said the same thing yesterday when he refused to watch 'Miracle on 34th Street'. It was made before he was born, even before his parents were born.
He says he doesn't like girls in these old movies as they act all girly and stupid.

I actually think that some of the older movies have the women extending themselves from their normal roles in society back then but my sons not going to give them a chance.

I remember when I was young I used to watch movies from the 40s and 50s on TV but there wasn't as much choice back then.

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Old December 25 2013, 07:45 AM   #218
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

Maurice wrote: View Post
I scanned the 2099 episode proposals and ugh. Just ugh.
Yep. The only good bit was moving the episode "Earthbound" closer to the first episode so as to get rid of Commission Smit ... er ... Simmons. But the rest is trying too hard for an arc that didn't exist in the original show.
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Old December 25 2013, 08:29 AM   #219
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

Thing is, changing the means of the moon's escape to a space warp "changes" absolutely nothing. You still have a moon floating around the universe, which can move untold light-years in months or weeks, but can somehow stay in range of planets for days. Obviously the premise is more fantasy-oriented than science-oriented, so just leave it at that.

Besides, I have my own personal theory as to how that speed thing works, and it satisfies me plenty.
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Old December 25 2013, 04:25 PM   #220
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

When I was a teenager and into my early twenties I like many that age could be quite opinionated on some things I probably didn't know much about. You think you know so much, but the passage of a few years soon illustrates you know basically jack shit. When that happens then your perspective might broaden.

But previous generations were exposed to film, literature, television and music and history from before our time through our parents. Most homes had only one television and no computer or laptop (or tablet or smart phone) as an alternative. You didn't have the option to watch something else at the same time---you could simply try to occupy yourself in some other way. Today a lot of folks can watch whatever they want whenever they want and largely without being exposed much to their parents' tastes. So much is in the here and now and it's a world where a two year old cell phone or laptop is considered outdated. Additionally, like generations of youth before them, they don't think previous generations have anything of value to offer them. Of course not all are like this, but quite a few are. We can only hope that eventual experience will change their perspectives because one day their kids will do the same thing to them.
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Old December 25 2013, 09:47 PM   #221
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

For those interested, the Space Opera Society just posted a completed re-edit/remastered episode of 1999 as 2099:

http://youtu.be/UrNvJ7KUp4s
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Old December 26 2013, 03:02 AM   #222
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

middyseafort wrote: View Post
For those interested, the Space Opera Society just posted a completed re-edit/remastered episode of 1999 as 2099:

http://youtu.be/UrNvJ7KUp4s
Thanks!

What's interesting about this is that they managed to take one of the below-average episodes and make it worse, by robbing it of its distinctive frightening imagery, in obscuring the shots of the (imaginary) human guinea pigs at around 24:35. Instead of "interpreting" those scenes, by washing-out/blurring them (or whatever the obscuring effects were) evidently to play up the made-of-light angle, they should have gone the other way, and made the exposed brain super-realistic (if feasible).

Another thing: why not replace the static plots on various wall monitors around Alpha with dynamic displays? Although it's trivial, that seems like something relatively useful to do.

If re-editing to improve things is the objective, then they dropped the ball here, by keeping the scene of lifting the Eagle command module to transport Koenig back to base at around 19:20: they had already moved Koenig to strap him onto the stretcher, so why the fuck was it necessary to do all that at that point?

One other lost opportunity: the well-known image of Zenno wasn't really botched, thank goodness, but it wasn't improved either. TOS-R at least made the effort to improve this sort of matte shot, and they were generally successful in that.

In the "coming next week" segment at the end, did they actually replace the Mark IX Hawks? Sacrilege!
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