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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old December 19 2013, 10:33 PM   #151
Greg Cox
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

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I think I should try novels so I can have new adventures with my ol pals.
I would recommend trying books by either Greg Cox or Dayton Ward. Cox' The Rings of Time is very good. Picking up on the events of Shaun Christopher, the not yet born offspring from "Tomorrow is Yesterday".
Thanks! Glad you liked the Shaun Christopher book!
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Old December 19 2013, 10:36 PM   #152
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

God, that's awful. The original suffers from a ton of problems, but it is what it is. [Edit: in regards to the '99 Lucas-izing]
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Old December 19 2013, 10:53 PM   #153
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
plynch wrote: View Post
I think I should try novels so I can have new adventures with my ol pals.
I would recommend trying books by either Greg Cox or Dayton Ward. Cox' The Rings of Time is very good. Picking up on the events of Shaun Christopher, the not yet born offspring from "Tomorrow is Yesterday".
Thanks! Glad you liked the Shaun Christopher book!
It was the one I had to PM you about because I wasn't sure about the ending!
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Old December 19 2013, 11:37 PM   #154
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

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Just watched the 2099 promo.

Everybody wants to change everything. Are we that dullardly that everything must be in today's manner or it is somehow unintelligible?
All 2 tru.
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Old December 20 2013, 12:34 AM   #155
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

I fight the good fight by showing the original Mr. Smith Goes to Wash., Grapes of Wrath, and Bad Seed in class. Black and white is very offputting to many teens. They do not grow up seeing old movies on uhs stations as we did. TCM is WAY up the cable lineup, far beyond what they see. Though I use all three for curricular reasons, I feel I am also doing my part to help a few broaden their tastes and imaginations a bit to see that old can be good, too. What is a deification of "the new" called? I feel like there is a word, and I am not finding one in my gray matter.

Well, gotta go, Fibber McGee and Molly is coming on, and the Mrs has my pipe and slippers warmed up.
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Old December 20 2013, 12:44 AM   #156
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

I find it odd that so many young people profess being unable to get into movies which are black and white given how common that look was in music videos, etc. I suspect that black and white is just convenient shorthand/excuse for media which they consider to be out of date and inaccessible to them for a lot of things from acting style to music to cinematography.
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Old December 20 2013, 12:45 AM   #157
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

Maurice wrote: View Post
I find it odd that so many young people profess being unable to get into movies which are black and white given how common that look was in music videos, etc. I suspect that black and white is just convenient shorthand/excuse for media which they consider to be out of date and inaccessible to them for a lot of things from acting style to music to cinematography.
I can watch black and white movies and TV shows. I just have to be in the right frame of mind to do so.
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Old December 20 2013, 12:49 AM   #158
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

plynch wrote: View Post
I fight the good fight by showing the original Mr. Smith Goes to Wash., Grapes of Wrath, and Bad Seed in class. Black and white is very offputting to many teens. They do not grow up seeing old movies on uhs stations as we did. TCM is WAY up the cable lineup, far beyond what they see. Though I use all three for curricular reasons, I feel I am also doing my part to help a few broaden their tastes and imaginations a bit to see that old can be good, too.
Keep fighting the good fight (what do you teach?).

It really is depressing how averse many teenagers are to watching films made before they were born. One of my friends taught a film genre course last quarter, and at the beginning, not a single one of her students had seen a movie made before 1980 (and only a few had seen movies that "old").
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Old December 20 2013, 12:53 AM   #159
Greg Cox
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

Maurice wrote: View Post
I find it odd that so many young people profess being unable to get into movies which are black and white given how common that look was in music videos, etc. I suspect that black and white is just convenient shorthand/excuse for media which they consider to be out of date and inaccessible to them for a lot of things from acting style to music to cinematography.
I suspect you're onto something here. I watch way too much TCM (including Sullivan's Travels last night), but there's no denying that vintage movies are different from modern films in ways both subtle and not so much: the pacing, the fashions, the slang, the censorship restrictions, the gender roles, etc. Which can require a mental adjustment if you're not used to them. That's probably what younger people are actually reacting to, not the lack of color.
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Old December 20 2013, 01:08 AM   #160
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

BTW (and sorry if this has been mentioned in the previous 11 pages and I've missed it) but on the subject of Fred Freiberger, it's worth reading The Making of Space 1999, and Barney Rozenweig's autobiography (which is more of a behind the scenes book on Cagney and Lacey). The latter is really dismissive of Freiberger, saying that the late pick-up for a series after the success of the C&L TV movie meant they had to hire anyone who was available, and Freiberger came as part of the team with the person they actually hired (but didn't want to retain for the full season the next year); whereas the S1999 book, despite being the authorised behind the scenes book and therefore presumably subject to his approval, doesn't really depict him well. It gives a picture of someone who was more interested in finding people who'd fit in with his view of how you made TV than trying out interesting ideas (I'm thinking here of the account of meetings with a writer on an episode which was never produced when Freiberger comes across pretty badly, at least to my mind).
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Old December 20 2013, 01:33 AM   #161
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
I find it odd that so many young people profess being unable to get into movies which are black and white given how common that look was in music videos, etc. I suspect that black and white is just convenient shorthand/excuse for media which they consider to be out of date and inaccessible to them for a lot of things from acting style to music to cinematography.
I suspect you're onto something here. I watch way too much TCM (including Sullivan's Travels last night), but there's no denying that vintage movies are different from modern films in ways both subtle and not so much: the pacing, the fashions, the slang, the censorship restrictions, the gender roles, etc. Which can require a mental adjustment if you're not used to them. That's probably what younger people are actually reacting to, not the lack of color.
B&W monochrome can be awesome. The monochrome look I can't stand is the one that kinda started with DIE HARD, where it looks like you've shot the movie through a pair of polarized sunglasses, and which, since the advent of the digital intermediate, seems to be the way 70% of movies wind up looking (and pretty much all horror movies, where it is kinda dirty brown tones.)

I think the 'look' of the last 10 or 15 years (and the lens flare nutsiness for the last 5, which still seems on the upswing) will date worse than the choking on smoke look of the 80s (at least THAT look can be appropriate some of the time.)

The rejection of the older films is probablly cuz the young-uns (under 40?) see the style of the films as being something like the high-pants/fast-talking and stripe-shirted-guy-on-piano inserts on FAMILY GUY ... as in, don't wanna go there.
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Old December 20 2013, 01:44 AM   #162
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

I'm one of those people who's never had a problem with things being old fashioned. I can find the charm in a well made film no matter if it's a week or 100 years ago. Always have been that way.
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Old December 20 2013, 01:51 AM   #163
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

trevanian wrote: View Post
B&W monochrome can be awesome.
Indeed. It's incredibly hard to think of films like Casablanca or Citizen Cane as possibly looking good in color. In the Sci-Fi genre, the fantastic moody cinematography of The Outer Limits, and many Twilight Zone episodes are amazing, and if done in color, would have likely been robbed of much of those B&W cinematography techniques that are so impactful.

trevanian wrote: View Post
The monochrome look I can't stand is the one that kinda started with DIE HARD, where it looks like you've shot the movie through a pair of polarized sunglasses, and which, since the advent of the digital intermediate, seems to be the way 70% of movies wind up looking (and pretty much all horror movies, where it is kinda dirty brown tones.)
Yep the new "hey we can play with the color timing as much as we like in digital", so then they make everything steely blue or as you mentioned a pale brown, etc. is ridiculously out of control.

Maurice wrote: View Post
I'm one of those people who's never had a problem with things being old fashioned. I can find the charm in a well made film no matter if it's a week or 100 years ago. Always have been that way.
Yep I feel the same way. If something is good, it's good. I can place it in its' context and take for what it is, and when it was made, etc.
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Old December 20 2013, 03:22 AM   #164
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

SpHeRe31459 wrote: View Post
Yep the new "hey we can play with the color timing as much as we like in digital", so then they make everything steely blue or as you mentioned a pale brown, etc. is ridiculously out of control.
Yeah... It made sense in The Matrix, where the subtle sickly-green tinge to the virtual world was a hint to its unreality, but then countless other films and shows started using the same sickly-green tinge to everything for no good reason.

One place where it did kind of work was last season's Awake on NBC, about a man jumping back and forth between two different realities and not knowing which one was real. They color-coded the realities with a subtle red tinge to one and a subtle green tinge to the other, as well as using those as the dominant colors in the respective worlds' set and costume designs. It was a nice, almost subliminal way to tell the worlds apart, and also helped make one of the worlds feel warmer and more inviting than the other.
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Old December 20 2013, 04:12 AM   #165
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Re: Has Fred Freiberger been misblamed for Season 3 over the years?

plynch wrote: View Post
Just watched the 2099 promo.

No no no no no no no no no. The last straw was the super sweet 70s typewriter she was using and they turn it into a MacBook. Argh!!!
Irony of ironies, too. In the 70's, the original producers envisioned a typewriter being used in the future. Now, someone sees a "MacBook" in use in 2099. What's the "improvement" in that?
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