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Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old December 12 2013, 01:55 PM   #91
Christopher
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

Err, since they're all the same person, wouldn't every subsequent Doctor know about the same loss?
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Old December 12 2013, 06:31 PM   #92
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

Green Lantern wrote: View Post
If you wan an original regeneration.... Killed in an explosion would be fun.
Old hat. Captain Jack got there first.
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Old December 13 2013, 07:05 AM   #93
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

Christopher wrote: View Post
Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
I imagine finding and freeing Gallifrey would be more than enough cause to reward the Doctor with additional regenerations. (Not sure why that's not the obvious answer, since that's pretty much what the show is going to be focused on for a while.)
Well, isn't that just why it doesn't work? If the news reports are true, then the Doctor is currently on his last life, and will need to get a new regeneration cycle now, or rather two weeks from now. And the search for Gallifrey is most likely going to take a while to pay off, maybe drag on for years. It's not going to be resolved in "The Time of the Doctor." So unless Moffat's been lying to the newspapers and Smith is still just the 12th incarnation, then new regenerations are not going to be a reward for finding Gallifrey.
Erm, what?

Capaldi will be his 13th and final incarnation (assuming nothing else wonky is going on which, honestly, should be thanks to River's donation/sacrifice which more than makes up for any energy he lost with the whole hand fiasco). Even after the reveal of the so-called War Doctor, Matt Smith wasn't his last incarnation. The only thing that's changed is that he has only one regeneration left now rather than two, thus making his quest to find Gallifrey a bit more imperative before he's killed as Capaldi, at least as far as my idea is concerned.

Note that this doesn't have anything to do with the Doctor's belief that he's going to (permanently) die at Trenzalore. That's a whole other kettle of fish, and we already know that's not the case simply because the 13th -- which he was identified as in the actual show, by actual Time Lords and even the Doctor himself -- shows up to save Gallifrey. And as an audience, we already know that, too, simply by the fact that Capaldi has already been cast to play the part and that he does, in fact, regenerates into Capaldi during the Christmas special. So whatever these "news reports" are, they're talking out of their ass.
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Old December 13 2013, 07:27 AM   #94
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

^Capaldi.
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Old December 13 2013, 07:35 AM   #95
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

D'oh, I knew that. Dunno why I had Garibaldi in my head.
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Old December 13 2013, 07:38 AM   #96
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
D'oh, I knew that. Dunno why I had Garibaldi in my head.
Well, it had different implications depending on whether you were talking about Michael or Giuseppe Garibaldi.
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Old December 13 2013, 08:58 AM   #97
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
I imagine finding and freeing Gallifrey would be more than enough cause to reward the Doctor with additional regenerations. (Not sure why that's not the obvious answer, since that's pretty much what the show is going to be focused on for a while.)
Well, isn't that just why it doesn't work? If the news reports are true, then the Doctor is currently on his last life, and will need to get a new regeneration cycle now, or rather two weeks from now. And the search for Gallifrey is most likely going to take a while to pay off, maybe drag on for years. It's not going to be resolved in "The Time of the Doctor." So unless Moffat's been lying to the newspapers and Smith is still just the 12th incarnation, then new regenerations are not going to be a reward for finding Gallifrey.
Erm, what?

Capaldi will be his 13th and final incarnation (assuming nothing else wonky is going on which, honestly, should be thanks to River's donation/sacrifice which more than makes up for any energy he lost with the whole hand fiasco). Even after the reveal of the so-called War Doctor, Matt Smith wasn't his last incarnation. The only thing that's changed is that he has only one regeneration left now rather than two, thus making his quest to find Gallifrey a bit more imperative before he's killed as Capaldi, at least as far as my idea is concerned.
Not so, apparently. What Christopher's referring to is Moffat's assertion that Smith is the 13th Doctor, owing to The Stolen Earth. River's donation/sacrifice had consequences for her - she used up her regenerations, she didn't transfer them.
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Old December 13 2013, 03:55 PM   #98
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

If Moffat wanted to do the 13th doctor idea and avoid the Metacrisis issue he could do a '2 minute' Doctor'. What I mean by that, is if the 11th was in a battle and regenerated to someone other than Capaldi. We get that 12th Doctor for a couple minutes then he gets injured again and regenerates to Capaldi. After all, Moffat did write 'Curse of the Fatal Death' (where something similar happened) and does like to re-uses his ideas! LOL Of course, he already played his 'unknown' Doctor card with the War Doctor.
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Old December 13 2013, 04:29 PM   #99
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

Yeah, but that's less interesting. Why not take advantage of the Meta-Crisis Doctor since we have him.
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Old December 13 2013, 05:13 PM   #100
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

11 regenerates into a Doctor played by Colin Baker that looks like an older version of the 6th doctor. His first words are "I'm Back!, now I can finally have all those adventures I missed out on! Fuck you Michael Grade!" then he trips over something in the Tardis and hits his head on the console and starts to regenerate, his lasts words are "Oh shit not again!" then we get Capaldi. LOL
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Old December 13 2013, 07:45 PM   #101
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

Iamnotspock wrote: View Post
Not so, apparently. What Christopher's referring to is Moffat's assertion that Smith is the 13th Doctor, owing to The Stolen Earth. River's donation/sacrifice had consequences for her - she used up her regenerations, she didn't transfer them.
All of that was utterly obliterated in the 50th Anniversary special. Again, we saw Capaldi was the 13th Doctor. He was acknowledged as the 13th Doctor. It wasn't "All twelve-plus-a-guy-spawned-from-a-hand incarnations plus, uh, some other dude!" It was "All thirteen!" Followed by a tease of Capaldi's eyes, not a second Tennant's.

That's actual canon. As opposed to something Moffat's flippantly thrown out there in order to mislead people so he can "surprise" us in the upcoming special, ala JJ Abrams.

That said, I'm sure there'll be some wonky stuff going on as it wouldn't be Doctor Who if there wasn't. I also have little doubt that Smith's Doctor won't come to the same conclusion that Moffat is suggesting either (in fact, it's all but certain he will based on the trailer). But that doesn't change the fact that we know in both the real world and within the show that Capaldi is the 13th incarnation of the Doctor. Hell, at no point has Tennant showed up twice in the myriad times they've shown all the Doctor's incarnations, certainly not the times they've shown all thirteen.
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Old December 13 2013, 07:58 PM   #102
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

^ The specifics don't matter much to me because I'm a bit opposed to the whole idea that Moffat rushed us to the 13th incarnation just because he wanted to deal with it during his tenure.

That said, I believe the theory is that Tennant used up a regeneration's dose of energy during the meta-crisis but didn't actually regenerate, just repaired himself. Thus, 12 incarnations used up 12 regenerations of energy rather than the typical 11.

Capaldi is the 13th as you say but would've required 13 doses of regeneration energy to come into existence.

We already know it happens, but how?

Personally, what I think will happen is that Smith's incarnation thinks he can't regeneration. Honestly believes that he has regenerated all he can (given the scenario above) but then is surprised when he does regenerate. Thus the quotes that he's the last Doctor.

However, he's wrong. Why is the question. Guessing that it has something to do with the 2nd big bang and that he was actually the first incarnation of the recreated Doctor. But, it could be anything.

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Old December 13 2013, 08:54 PM   #103
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Well, if you want to use broad generalizations, aren't spaceship crashes really just falls from great heights?
And fall from heights are more widespread and less precise gunshot wounds. And radiation poisoning and old age are just uniformly distributed inside-out fall from heights-style internal injuries. And who knows what forced regenerations do to the body. Who knows?

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Well, it had different implications depending on whether you were talking about Michael or Giuseppe Garibaldi.
Same difference. Both regenerated after wearing a bit thin, and were very bad at finding their fobwatches while still alive.
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Old December 13 2013, 09:03 PM   #104
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Iamnotspock wrote: View Post
Not so, apparently. What Christopher's referring to is Moffat's assertion that Smith is the 13th Doctor, owing to The Stolen Earth. River's donation/sacrifice had consequences for her - she used up her regenerations, she didn't transfer them.
All of that was utterly obliterated in the 50th Anniversary special. Again, we saw Capaldi was the 13th Doctor. He was acknowledged as the 13th Doctor. It wasn't "All twelve-plus-a-guy-spawned-from-a-hand incarnations plus, uh, some other dude!" It was "All thirteen!" Followed by a tease of Capaldi's eyes, not a second Tennant's.
Nothing was obliterated in the 50th. They said "All thirteen" because they were thirteen Doctors in orbit around Gallifrey in 13 TARDISes. Nothing in that scene disproves the fact that The Doctor used a regeneration while not changing his form during The Stolen Earth. Normally regenerating 12 times would result in 13 incarnations, but Tennant's Doctor regenerated without creating a new incarnation. Smith is the 12th Doctor, but he has also regenerated 12 times.
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Old December 13 2013, 09:19 PM   #105
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
^ The specifics don't matter much to me because I'm a bit opposed to the whole idea that Moffat rushed us to the 13th incarnation just because he wanted to deal with it during his tenure.

That said, I believe the theory is that Tennant used up a regeneration's dose of energy during the meta-crisis but didn't actually regenerate, just repaired himself. Thus, 12 incarnations used up 12 regenerations of energy rather than the typical 11.

Capaldi is the 13th as you say but would've required 13 doses of regeneration energy to come into existence.

We already know it happens, but how?

Personally, what I think will happen is that Smith's incarnation thinks he can't regeneration. Honestly believes that he has regenerated all he can (given the scenario above) but then is surprised when he does regenerate. Thus the quotes that he's the last Doctor.

However, he's wrong. Why is the question. Guessing that it has something to do with the 2nd big bang and that he was actually the first incarnation of the recreated Doctor. But, it could be anything.
This is Moffat. He loves his River character. Whatever energy Tennant ate through with his faux regeneration was easily replaced by the massive amount of energy that was infused in him from River that far and away exceeded what he "wasted" in the past.

That said, I agree. I really have no doubt that Smith will think this is his last life and that he will truly die at Trenzalore.

'Course, the prophecy is that Trenzalore is where the 11th would fall. If the people in this thread truly believe that Tennant 2.0 is the 12th incarnation and Smith is the 13th, then it would be the original Tennant who's going to die/fall there, no? Hell, even ignoring the Hand-Tennant, Smith still isn't the 11th thanks to the Hurt.

So somewhere, somehow, someone's wrong about something.
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