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Old December 11 2013, 02:12 AM   #76
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Re: "Are you coming or going?"

I work in a shopping centre and so parking in crowded lots is something I'm used to. People do some stupid things in parking lots. Where I work, it's so busy on the weekends that people park on the nature strips, in the aisles, on the pavement - anywhere they can squeeze their car really. The parking lot is way too small. But you get used to it.

As for vultures, I sit in my car, if I'm not in a hurry, and wait for them to give up and drive off before I depart.
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Old December 11 2013, 02:49 AM   #77
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Re: "Are you coming or going?"

Bisz wrote: View Post
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Are American car parks so ill designed that they're aren't wide enough to allow two cars to pass?
As a Canadian, the answer to the above is yes, a lot of US parking lots are dreadfully designed. They have single, one-way aisles and it is impossible to pass anyone who is sitting in the aisle.
Not really, but it depends. Some parking lots have the angled spots which have one-way aisles that are about as wide a lane on a road. Not enough room for a car to pass one standing.

Parking lots with 90-degree angled parking slots have aisles that are two-way but usually it's a very narrow two-lane (about what you'd get on a road in a suburban area) not allowing for too much passing or movement in traffic flow. This is probably done to maximize space, the narrower the aisles the more cars the parking lot can accommodate or the smaller the parking lot needs to be to allowing space for other shops and/or landscaping.

There's also a hitch... Drivers are... Well, drivers are stupid.

Parking lots don't have lane-lines and such in them which usually translates to drivers in them doing whatever the hell they want. As stated the aisles for standard parking configuration isn't much wider than a regular two-lane road in a low-volume neighborhood. Just enough room for one car to go in each direction with some space to spare. But with no lane-lines people don't usually completely stay to one extreme side or the other and, rather, tend to go down the middle of the aisle which effectively makes a normally 2-way aisle now a one-way aisle. If cars stayed to one extreme side there'd be some decent room to overtake a waiting car. (Though passing is usually discouraged in parking lots as it's an unexpected thing that may make for an accident as a car backing out may wreck into an overtaking car being in the "open" lane.)

Then we get into *how* people back out of the space. I was always taught that when you back out of a space you pull into the nearest lane and orient yourself to be in that lane properly. (i.e. pull out, turning your car to the right so that when you go in "Drive" again you're in the right-lane facing the correct direction.)

Turning your wheel through the backing out-process properly while backing out should allow for the parked-car to do this and still allow for the far lane to continue through the aisle safely. (The inside lane having to hold-up for the backing-out car.)

People don't do this.

Instead they back-out and likely set themselves up to go in the "direction they need to go" rather than the inside lane. This ties up movement in BOTH lanes of the parking aisle.

Then there's the people who don't know what that big wheel in front of them is for. So assuming the "direction they want to go" means pulling into the correct lane they may STILL tie-up both lanes of the aisle as they effectively back straight out of the stall, maybe with a slight slant, put the car into "Drive" and THEN they straighten the car out as they pull forward into the aisle and make a turn. As opposed to turning the car while backing out to stay as much in their lane as is possible.

Granted doing a lot of this may be hard to do as people drive larger and larger cars (read: SUVs) that aren't as maneuverable or easy to see out of when backing out of a space. Or people who drive smaller cars who are flanked by larger cars making see out of the space harder when backing out.

It's all a mess but boils down to people being idiots when they get into their cars and bigger idiots when they get into parking lots that are narrower than most roads and nifty little lines painted on the ground to tell people where they should and shouldn't be.
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Old December 11 2013, 03:03 AM   #78
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Re: "Are you coming or going?"

Bisz wrote: View Post
Dimesdan wrote: View Post
Are American car parks so ill designed that they're aren't wide enough to allow two cars to pass?
As a Canadian, the answer to the above is yes, a lot of US parking lots are dreadfully designed. They have single, one-way aisles and it is impossible to pass anyone who is sitting in the aisle.
Funny, I can't remember seeing that at ANY medium to major shopping center I have ever been to, in my area or in other states. They all have two-way lanes between the parking spots on either side. And those are the kinds of places where you'd most likely find huge crowds of shoppers and cars (sorry, "cages") waiting in line.

Are we talking tiny little strip malls and small business parking lots? Because that's not really a fair example due to their limited space, nor is it comparable to what Mr. "I've been a biker for about five minutes but I just can't understand your world of cages any more" was talking about in the OP.


As far as Flux goes, the reason someone would wait for you to pull out is because if they continuously kept circling around they would lose the spot the second someone else pulled up. It's really pretty simple, and not worth getting angry over. Get ready just as you normally would. If they get mad, that's on them.

This is just symptomatic of your usual impatience and anger when dealing with other drivers, but somehow carried over into a parking lot. You'd think you would have chilled a bit when you started embracing the biker lifestyle. It was called "Easy Rider" not "Tense Rider." But no, you only seemed to borrow the part of riding that looks down on others for doing the thing you just did up until a few months ago. Well done, Sons of Animosity.
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Old December 11 2013, 03:37 AM   #79
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Re: "Are you coming or going?"

I like my "cage" I have heat, air-conditioning, a comfortable seat a radio and CD-player. And I don't have a higher statistical probability of doing something reckless and stupid and suffering a major injury.
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Old December 11 2013, 03:43 AM   #80
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Re: "Are you coming or going?"

My cage keeps me from hitting something at high speed and becoming something you spread on a Ritz cracker.
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Old December 11 2013, 04:12 AM   #81
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Re: "Are you coming or going?"

Santa Hooves wrote: View Post
My cage keeps me from hitting something at high speed and becoming something you spread on a Ritz cracker.
Never trust a vehicle were they tell you you're BETTER off being thrown from it at a high velocity rather than be strapped into/onto it.
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Old December 11 2013, 05:48 AM   #82
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Re: "Are you coming or going?"

I was going to just let this die off but...now it's turning into why you all think it's better to drive cars versus a bike?

For the record, the term "cage" was not meant in a derogatory sense. It's just a slang term for a car. If I'm in a group of fellow riders and I am letting them know I plan on driving instead of riding, I might say "I'm caging it." I don't know why everyone had to automatically take offense to it.

Yes, driving a car is more comfortable and slightly safer, but it doesn't offer the level of fun or freedom that a bike does, IMO. I love cars and I love to drive them but in a high traffic situation, I prefer my bike. I can use the HOV lane and I can split lanes to get through a traffic jam like no car can. Also, just because someone rides doesn't mean they're inherently more reckless and dangerous than someone who doesn't. I am always very cautious and safe on the bike. And remember, people die in car accidents too all the time and some accidents are more easily avoided on a bike than in a car.

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Never trust a vehicle were they tell you you're BETTER off being thrown from it at a high velocity rather than be strapped into/onto it.
Why not? If you consider the physics involved it would be far worse to be strapped to a bike in most accidents rather than be thrown free from it.

Also, kudos to doubleohfive for mocking my support and service to our veterans. Classy.
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Old December 11 2013, 06:01 AM   #83
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Re: "Are you coming or going?"

Flux Capacitor wrote: View Post
I was going to just let this die off but...now it's turning into why you all think it's better to drive cars versus a bike?

For the record, the term "cage" was not meant in a derogatory sense. It's just a slang term for a car. If I'm in a group of fellow riders and I am letting them know I plan on driving instead of riding, I might say "I'm caging it." I don't know why everyone had to automatically take offense to it.

Yes, driving a car is more comfortable and slightly safer, but it doesn't offer the level of fun or freedom that a bike does, IMO. I love cars and I love to drive them but in a high traffic situation, I prefer my bike. I can use the HOV lane and I can split lanes to get through a traffic jam like no car can. Also, just because someone rides doesn't mean they're inherently more reckless and dangerous than someone who doesn't. I am always very cautious and safe on the bike. And remember, people die in car accidents too all the time and some accidents are more easily avoided on a bike than in a car.

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Never trust a vehicle were they tell you you're BETTER off being thrown from it at a high velocity rather than be strapped into/onto it.
Why not? If you consider the physics involved it would be far worse to be strapped to a bike in most accidents rather than be thrown free from it.

Also, kudos to doubleohfive for mocking my support and service to our veterans. Classy.
Oh for fuck's sake.

I wasn't mocking your support of and service to our veterans. I have, actually, gone on record applauding you for it.

If I was mocking anything it was your own sense of entitlement and pretentiousness about it and how you lionize yourself for it, which to me undercuts whatever reasoning you might for doing it. Big diff there, sport.

Never mind that once again, as always seems to be the case in every one of these threads you start, you ignore all the legitimate criticism and points being made about whatever ridiculous situation you're all huffed up about in favor of getting one easy potshot in, regardless if you understand the context of what you're saying.

At least you're consistent.

Last edited by doubleohfive; December 11 2013 at 06:00 PM.
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Old December 11 2013, 06:09 AM   #84
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Re: "Are you coming or going?"

Flux Capacitor wrote: View Post
I was going to just let this die off but...now it's turning into why you all think it's better to drive cars versus a bike?
I don't see where that's happening. I think they're taking the piss, nothing more.

For the record, the term "cage" was not meant in a derogatory sense. It's just a slang term for a car. If I'm in a group of fellow riders and I am letting them know I plan on driving instead of riding, I might say "I'm caging it." I don't know why everyone had to automatically take offense to it.
Because a cage signifies restraint; a lack of freedom. You even go on to talk about how much more "freedom" riding a bike has compared to a car. It's the idea that people in cars are too afraid, or don't know what it's like to be "free." It's rather condescending, in other words.

Yes, driving a car is more comfortable and slightly safer, but it doesn't offer the level of fun or freedom that a bike does, IMO.
By "slightly," you mean that motorcycles have a fatality rate 30 times higher than that of cars.

I love cars and I love to drive them but in a high traffic situation, I prefer my bike. I can use the HOV lane and I can split lanes to get through a traffic jam like no car can. Also, just because someone rides doesn't mean they're inherently more reckless and dangerous than someone who doesn't. I am always very cautious and safe on the bike. And remember, people die in car accidents too all the time and some accidents are more easily avoided on a bike than in a car.
While some accidents might be more easily avoided, the likelihood of dying from one is still far, far higher than that of an automobile. In short, whereas I may have a slight fender bender, by which I step out of the vehicle unharmed, you may have a "missing leg" and/or "neck."
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Old December 11 2013, 06:10 AM   #85
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Re: "Are you coming or going?"

Flux Capacitor wrote: View Post
For the record, the term "cage" was not meant in a derogatory sense. It's just a slang term for a car. If I'm in a group of fellow riders and I am letting them know I plan on driving instead of riding, I might say "I'm caging it." I don't know why everyone had to automatically take offense to it.
Oh please, it was totally derogatory. You switched to using the term when you were annoyed and using the dreaded . I didn't post and take offense to it, but don't act like people were conjuring meaning out of nowhere.
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Old December 11 2013, 06:15 AM   #86
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Re: "Are you coming or going?"

doubleohfive wrote: View Post
Oh for fuck's sake.

I wasn't mocking your support of and service to our veterans. I have, actually, gone on record applauding you for it.
I recall that, but it's hard to take such a sentiment seriously when you later make comments like the one I was referring to.

If I was mocking anything it was your own sense of entitlement and pretentiousness about it and how lionize yourself for it, which to me undercuts whatever reasoning you might for doing it. Big diff there, sport.

Never mind that once again, as always seems to be the case in every one of these threads you start, you ignore all the legitimate criticism and points being made about whatever ridiculous situation you're all huffed up about in favor of getting one easy potshot in, regardless if you understand the context of what you're saying.

At least you're consistent.
I don't recall bringing up anything I do with VSO's in this thread at all. You were the one to bring it up. I also don't know where I've ever come across as pretentious or entitled when it comes to what I do because that is completely the opposite of what the group is all about. If I ever came across that was it was unintentional and I'll play closer attention to how I portray what I do in regards to those groups.

I will point out that earlier in the thread I did concede that others may be right and what I experienced was just the nature of the holiday shopping beast and that I shouldn't have gotten annoyed by it. That's the thing, though...I was simply annoyed. For some reason, any time I post about something that is mildly irritating but otherwise IMO an interesting topic, it becomes the general consensus that I am wildly enraged by said topic and that is the only reason I would post about it. Just because my thread topic may not meet the apparently high standards of being interesting that so many have and because I express displeasure about what happened doesn't mean it is ruining my day and that I'm just sitting there fuming until I can vent about it on the BBS.
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Old December 11 2013, 06:45 AM   #87
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Re: "Are you coming or going?"

It seems like you only drop by to post these types of threads though. Maybe you're posting in other parts of the board that I'm not seeing, but it feels like you just drop by every now and then to complain about something that's not really a big deal. If that's what we have to go off of, we're going to form certain opinion about you.
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Old December 11 2013, 06:56 AM   #88
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Re: "Are you coming or going?"

Flux Capacitor wrote: View Post

I will point out that earlier in the thread I did concede that others may be right and what I experienced was just the nature of the holiday shopping beast and that I shouldn't have gotten annoyed by it. That's the thing, though...I was simply annoyed. For some reason, any time I post about something that is mildly irritating but otherwise IMO an interesting topic, it becomes the general consensus that I am wildly enraged by said topic and that is the only reason I would post about it. Just because my thread topic may not meet the apparently high standards of being interesting that so many have and because I express displeasure about what happened doesn't mean it is ruining my day and that I'm just sitting there fuming until I can vent about it on the BBS.

It's not what you say, but rather the "Can you believe the ridiculously stupid thing that this arrogant jackass did in front of me" attitude that you project with the way that you say it. You say that you are mildly irritated by these things, however we don't have the privilege of standing in front of you and interpreting your body language as a part of the conversation. All we have to go on is your choice of wording and sentence structure. You know that you are only mildly irritated, however, your statements to us come across as angry and condescending toward the other drivers and not as "annoyed"

In other words, the way you choose to write about it DOES come across to us as "it is ruining my day and that I'm just sitting there fuming until I can vent about it on the BBS" to use your own words.
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Old December 11 2013, 10:19 AM   #89
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Re: "Are you coming or going?"

Flux Capacitor wrote: View Post
I was going to just let this die off but...
No, you weren't.

Flux Capacitor wrote: View Post
now it's turning into why you all think it's better to drive cars versus a bike?
Well, since you made it into "why it's better to ride bikes vs. a car"...

Flux Capacitor wrote: View Post
For the record, the term "cage" was not meant in a derogatory sense.
Sure.

Flux Capacitor wrote: View Post
Also, kudos to doubleohfive for mocking my support and service to our veterans. Classy.
I have no strong feeling about it (except I find it quite weird), but calling yourself a "civilian patriot" for it is just... tacky.
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Old December 11 2013, 12:13 PM   #90
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Re: "Are you coming or going?"

Flux Capacitor wrote: View Post
Why not? If you consider the physics involved it would be far worse to be strapped to a bike in most accidents rather than be thrown free from it.
Er.... that's sort-of the point I was getting at. I realize why bikes don't have seatbelts and the physics involved. Which is what I was getting at on why bikes are so "unsafe."

As for the "cage"/"cager" term being derogatory how you used it and the term itself sort of sounds derogatory. Because it implies a person is trapped/unfree in their cars. How could people not take offense to it by implying they're in a "cage" by being a vehicle that offers them the comfort and level of freedom they enjoy?
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