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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old December 1 2013, 08:51 PM   #1
E-DUB
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A bartender.............on a warship!

Just rewatched "Yesterday's Enterprise" and couldn't help wondering why Guinan was there, except for the necessities of the plot of course. I mean, you might need a bar on such a ship for the troops to blow off steam but the bartender would most likely be a member of the crew and not a civilian. Your thoughts?
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Old December 1 2013, 10:00 PM   #2
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Re: A bartender.............on a warship!

I'm not sure if there are any precedent in modern warfare, but in ancient and medieval times, entire retinues of non-combatant camp followers might follow armies around.

In this particular case, with the situation being as dire as it was at that point, why waste a trained Starfleet officer on a menial task like bartending?
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Old December 1 2013, 10:52 PM   #3
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Re: A bartender.............on a warship!

I dunno. The army has traditionally had cooks but they were soldiers who would put down their spatulas and pick up their weapons if need be. Recently the trend, with the US at least, has been to contract out such services. But that may be more about lining the pockets of contractors than any military consideration.

I still find it unlikely that a starship wouldn't utilize enlisted personnel to provide such services rather than have a civilian taking up space. Especially considering that the bar would most probably be closed during engagements.
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Old December 1 2013, 11:07 PM   #4
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Re: A bartender.............on a warship!

Well, we know the time change happened a couple decades before the episode. We've seen Guinan come to know Picard in Time's Arrow, and she packs a considerable arsenal herself. It could be that, even though she's civilian, befriended Picard and/or proven her ability to handle a crisis well.

As for Ten-Forward's use, I imagine that, should the E-D suffer catastrophic damage or needs to act as a mobile hospital/relief center, that Ten-Forward can be used as additional space. Guinan could be a key member in managing that space for emergencies, working in conjunction with military staff for maximum efficiency. So in effect, she takes up her space, but is perhaps very, very good at managing space much greater than her own, which makes it a more-than-fair trade.
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Old December 1 2013, 11:08 PM   #5
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Re: A bartender.............on a warship!

I had never thought of that. Maybe Guinan used her influence to get herself onboard, with her mysterious wisdom guiding her even if she herself didn't understand why she needed to be there. I'm not terribly worried about it, but it's an interesting point. I'll mostly just assume that Starfleet decided a good bartender was important for ship's morale.
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Old December 2 2013, 01:08 AM   #6
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Re: A bartender.............on a warship!

Well, they had a fully functional barber shop/beauty parlor, so why not a fully functional bar and bartender?
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Old December 2 2013, 01:17 AM   #7
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Re: A bartender.............on a warship!

She also sang, danced, and did stand-up comedy. She was like a one-being UFPO show.
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Old December 2 2013, 01:19 AM   #8
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Re: A bartender.............on a warship!

MikeH92467 wrote: View Post
Well, they had a fully functional barber shop/beauty parlor, so why not a fully functional bar and bartender?
IIRC, Yesterday's Enterprise didn't establish if the ship's barber shops were staffed by civilians or by military personnel (which is the case in modern military navies). This is unlike Guinan -- a civilian -- running a bar in a warship.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjob1/a/sh.htm
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Old December 2 2013, 01:35 AM   #9
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Re: A bartender.............on a warship!

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Well, we know the time change happened a couple decades before the episode. We've seen Guinan come to know Picard in Time's Arrow
I wonder which Picard she met in the past, in the Klingon War timeline? How would that work?
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Old December 2 2013, 01:42 AM   #10
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Re: A bartender.............on a warship!

Guinan has lived so long, it's possible (albeit unlikely) that she actually has military experience of some kind.
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Old December 2 2013, 03:07 AM   #11
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Re: A bartender.............on a warship!

UssGlenn wrote: View Post
Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Well, we know the time change happened a couple decades before the episode. We've seen Guinan come to know Picard in Time's Arrow
I wonder which Picard she met in the past, in the Klingon War timeline? How would that work?
Data's head pops up in the *weirdest* places...

Ahem, more mysterious though, is that Guinan "Prime" has said that Picard requested her to join, and that she knew Picard for a long time and that their relationship went beyond friendship and family (though it contradicts her saying that she only met Picard after boarding).
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Old December 2 2013, 03:45 AM   #12
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Re: A bartender.............on a warship!

Ah, the need for speculation once again raises its ugly head. According to the letter of what we hear her say, they didn't meet face to face until she showed up on the Enterprise, yet they have known each other for years.

It's possible Guinan and Picard corresponded for many years before he asked her to join him aboard the Enterprise. She could have used any excuse to begin the correspondence, even saying she had heard about his exploits and wanted the straight deal directly from him. However their ongoing conversation in print might have gone, if they began sharing private details of their lives, the dialog between them becomes one "beyond friendship and family", as these details are ones they have not shared with others. It says a lot about Picard's trust of Guinan that he would ask her to come among his friends and co-workers, after sharing such intimacies with her.

Once again, this is all just non-canon speculation. But that's my take on it.
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Old December 2 2013, 04:04 AM   #13
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Re: A bartender.............on a warship!

FormerLurker wrote: View Post
Ah, the need for speculation once again raises its ugly head. According to the letter of what we hear her say, they didn't meet face to face until she showed up on the Enterprise, yet they have known each other for years.

It's possible Guinan and Picard corresponded for many years before he asked her to join him aboard the Enterprise. She could have used any excuse to begin the correspondence, even saying she had heard about his exploits and wanted the straight deal directly from him. However their ongoing conversation in print might have gone, if they began sharing private details of their lives, the dialog between them becomes one "beyond friendship and family", as these details are ones they have not shared with others. It says a lot about Picard's trust of Guinan that he would ask her to come among his friends and co-workers, after sharing such intimacies with her.

Once again, this is all just non-canon speculation. But that's my take on it.
That's as valid as any other theory, I think. Maybe there's a Federatoin Craigslist that started it all...

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Old December 7 2013, 08:09 PM   #14
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Re: A bartender.............on a warship!

To the above: Starfleet doesn't have to conform to 21st century military standards. Where does it say otherwise? And besides, it could be that Picard made it an exception in. Guinan's case, or that Starfleet does subcontracting with civilians. Regardless, this sort of criticism of Guinan being aboard a warship is silly, since there is very little in the way of a fully-developed backdrop in 'Yesterday's Enterprise'. A noveltization of the episode would have been nice, though...
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Old December 7 2013, 09:12 PM   #15
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Re: A bartender.............on a warship!

Even warships have cooks, though with replicators, it's probably not needed. The Ten Forward in this is more like a messhall than a bar, and Guinan served field rations.
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