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Old December 7 2013, 09:00 PM   #256
lurok
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Re: Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman In ‘Batman Vs. Superman’

There's a part of me wants to scream: let it go!

But perhaps levity is better

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Old December 7 2013, 09:07 PM   #257
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Re: Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman In ‘Batman Vs. Superman’

[QUOTE=kirk55555;8985151]
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post

I would just like to point out: there are no pictures of Wonder Woman.

Wonder Woman is a drawn fictional character who for 70 some years has been drawn by many many different people and has looked different in those pictures over those 70 plus years.

So, again, there are no pictures of Wonder Woman. Just lines on a page representing a human being. An almost impossible human being.
Thats just stupid. Yes, she's not a real person. But, by your logic, anyone can be cast as any fictional character, at least from comics, because they don't actually exist.
No, what is stupid is fan outrage at casting, when time and time again, the actor chosen has done just fine in the role.

What is stupid is internet warriors who are quarterbacking decisions made by people who make these movies for a living. Who have been in charge of billion dollar franchises. You don't get into the position without being successful. And yes, I'm defining success as making money.

Time and time again there has been internet outrage at casting that is remarkably stupid in hindsight. "Daniel Craig is BLONDE!? it's the END of Bond!"

Do you even hear yourself?

I point out that she's a fictional character because you can't just lift that drawing off the page. And besides, you are seeing her not after training, not in costume, not in action. What is there to judge? You haven't even seen her audition.

You keep listing attributes:



Wonder Woman's traits:
But, I'm not going to go over all of them, as other's have done an excellent job. But, I want to underline one point...


height varies, from around 5'10 with a clueless artist to about 7 feet tall in a few extreme cases. As a good median, she's usually taller than batman but shorter than (or equal to) Superman, so about 6'2'' to 6'4'' or maybe 6'5'' on the outside.

Thats been fairly consistent since she's been around, although her creepy creator probably made her shorter and smaller than normal. But, I'd say by the Silver age and later she's generally been as I described her, and thats how I judge casting choices by. You may find outliers and elseworlds stories, but I don't think you'll find many comics set in any era's main continuity (outside of, again, possibly her weird creators time and the rest of the Golden age) that stray far from those traits. So, fictional or not, she has consistency.

The height of this character seems awfully important to you.

So, let me guess... you just hate hate hate Hugh Jackman right? I mean, come on, he doesn't really match the picture of Wolverine, does he? Sure, he's male with brown hair. But, one of Wolverine's distinguishing features is his height. In the comics, he is one of the very few heroes who is portrayed as short.

Do you still have the same outrage for Hugh Jackman? I think this is a question you should answer.
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Old December 7 2013, 09:37 PM   #258
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Re: Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman In ‘Batman Vs. Superman’

I like how he thinks the original WW artist, HG Peter and George Perez, who's WW run is thought of as one of the best, some how got Wonder Woman's height wrong. It's also amusing that he seems unaware that the "creepy creator" didn't draw Wonder Woman.
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Old December 7 2013, 10:54 PM   #259
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Re: Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman In ‘Batman Vs. Superman’

I'm not sure if this is real, but wasn't Wonder Woman a composite of Bill's wife and mistress?
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Old December 7 2013, 11:04 PM   #260
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Re: Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman In ‘Batman Vs. Superman’

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
I'm not sure if this is real, but wasn't Wonder Woman a composite of Bill's wife and mistress?
Elizabeth Marston and Olive Byrne, yes. Elizabeth was a psychologist, herself, and helped Marson in developing the polygraph. Olive helped in their work and the three and their kids lived together rather happily.

In his background on the creator of Wonder Woman, the comic-book historian Les Daniels wrote:

Olive Richard had originally been Olive Byrne, the student who had helped Marston with his study of the sorority “baby party” at Tufts. She is also visible, a dark-haired woman monitoring blood pressure tests, in photos of Marston’s well-publicized demonstrations of the lie detector. Clearly she was collaborating with him on the Family Circle articles, and the suggestion that she was merely a magazine staffer asking him innocent questions was another subterfuge.

Their son Byrne Marston explained the rest of the story. “Bill Marston married Elizabeth Holloway. Then in the late 1920s Olive Richard, whose name was Olive Byrne at that time, was a student at Tufts when he was teaching there. He met her and she became friends with him later on. And they pretty much lived together, the three of them, from then o
http://www.flavinscorner.com/drww.htm
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Old December 8 2013, 12:59 AM   #261
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Re: Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman In ‘Batman Vs. Superman’

Gov Radner wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
I'm not sure if this is real, but wasn't Wonder Woman a composite of Bill's wife and mistress?
Elizabeth Marston and Olive Byrne, yes. Elizabeth was a psychologist, herself, and helped Marson in developing the polygraph. Olive helped in their work and the three and their kids lived together rather happily.

In his background on the creator of Wonder Woman, the comic-book historian Les Daniels wrote:

Olive Richard had originally been Olive Byrne, the student who had helped Marston with his study of the sorority “baby party” at Tufts. She is also visible, a dark-haired woman monitoring blood pressure tests, in photos of Marston’s well-publicized demonstrations of the lie detector. Clearly she was collaborating with him on the Family Circle articles, and the suggestion that she was merely a magazine staffer asking him innocent questions was another subterfuge.

Their son Byrne Marston explained the rest of the story. “Bill Marston married Elizabeth Holloway. Then in the late 1920s Olive Richard, whose name was Olive Byrne at that time, was a student at Tufts when he was teaching there. He met her and she became friends with him later on. And they pretty much lived together, the three of them, from then o
http://www.flavinscorner.com/drww.htm
That would make one heck of a biopic.
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Old December 8 2013, 01:22 AM   #262
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Re: Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman In ‘Batman Vs. Superman’

Wow. This debate has gotten really stupid.
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Old December 8 2013, 02:21 AM   #263
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Re: Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman In ‘Batman Vs. Superman’

It didn't exactly start out as a MENSA meeting, either.
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Old December 8 2013, 02:57 AM   #264
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Re: Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman In ‘Batman Vs. Superman’

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
Height is pretty irrelevant considering that film makers can make anyone look 7 feet tall if they want to. You'd be surprised how many stars are put on platforms to make them look taller in a scene. (Tom Cruise, Mel Gibson)
That only works so much. Besides, even if they use film tricks for height (which I doubt they'll bother to do) she's still skinnier than I'd expect even a movie version of Robin to be. WW should be a powerful looking, tall woman. Gadot is a very fragile looking woman who looks like a breeze will knock her out. If they made her appear taller, she'd just probably look odd, a woman who looks underweight and fragile for 5'9'' is not going to look any tougher or more like WW if they give her a few inches of fake height.
You do realize that people can change their weight right? All it takes is some training and a diet and you can gain quite a bit of muscle. If they were filming next week, sure her weight would be an issue, but they don't appear to even have a date set yet, so she's got quite a while to get working on gaining muscle.
And as for the height thing, I don't really see where it matters. If it's an intimidation thing, then height really doesn't have to factor into that. My sister is only 5'2 and she can be pretty intimidating.
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Old December 8 2013, 03:06 AM   #265
kirk55555
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Re: Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman In ‘Batman Vs. Superman’

[QUOTE=Professor Zoom;8986570]
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post

Thats just stupid. Yes, she's not a real person. But, by your logic, anyone can be cast as any fictional character, at least from comics, because they don't actually exist.
No, what is stupid is fan outrage at casting, when time and time again, the actor chosen has done just fine in the role.

What is stupid is internet warriors who are quarterbacking decisions made by people who make these movies for a living. Who have been in charge of billion dollar franchises. You don't get into the position without being successful. And yes, I'm defining success as making money.

Time and time again there has been internet outrage at casting that is remarkably stupid in hindsight. "Daniel Craig is BLONDE!? it's the END of Bond!"

Do you even hear yourself?

I point out that she's a fictional character because you can't just lift that drawing off the page. And besides, you are seeing her not after training, not in costume, not in action. What is there to judge? You haven't even seen her audition.

You keep listing attributes:



But, I'm not going to go over all of them, as other's have done an excellent job. But, I want to underline one point...


height varies, from around 5'10 with a clueless artist to about 7 feet tall in a few extreme cases. As a good median, she's usually taller than batman but shorter than (or equal to) Superman, so about 6'2'' to 6'4'' or maybe 6'5'' on the outside.

Thats been fairly consistent since she's been around, although her creepy creator probably made her shorter and smaller than normal. But, I'd say by the Silver age and later she's generally been as I described her, and thats how I judge casting choices by. You may find outliers and elseworlds stories, but I don't think you'll find many comics set in any era's main continuity (outside of, again, possibly her weird creators time and the rest of the Golden age) that stray far from those traits. So, fictional or not, she has consistency.

The height of this character seems awfully important to you.

So, let me guess... you just hate hate hate Hugh Jackman right? I mean, come on, he doesn't really match the picture of Wolverine, does he? Sure, he's male with brown hair. But, one of Wolverine's distinguishing features is his height. In the comics, he is one of the very few heroes who is portrayed as short.

Do you still have the same outrage for Hugh Jackman? I think this is a question you should answer.
Hugh Jackman is a great actor, and has looked like a good choice since I first saw him. Wolverine's height was never something they could have gone with, anyway. He's way too short to be taken seriously if they had tried to cast a height appropriate actor in a movie. Some things inevitably have to be changed to make some franchises translate from 2D to live action, and Wolverine was one of those things. Its like how Hulk needs to be CG, because painting a guy green looks stupid, especially nowadays. Wonder Woman is not a character that needs any real change to fit in live action.

It seems like you're trying to imply that I'm critical of WW because she's a woman, which is hilarious. I've been critical of a lot of superhero casting choices, and (from my perspective) proven right several times. I was critical of Andrew Garfield because he's way too much of a "pretty boy" and looks like the average popular High Schooler. I was right about that, but I wasn't aware that he had literally no ability to act, either. I thought Christian Bale was a horrible Batman since I first saw Batman Begins, and if I had been following that movie when it was getting hyped, I wouldn't have supported his casting anyway. Same with Ledger's Joker, although I think he may have done a decent job with better writing. I was not overly enthusiastic about toby Maguire as Eddie brock, and he was pretty lame (although I probably disliked him less than most). I also thought that Anne Hathaway would suck long before TDK Rises came out, and I was right (at least in my opinion). Jeremy Renner has also looked like a really poor Hawkeye since I first saw him announced, although acting wise he's ok.

I'm just overall very critical of casting choices in movies that are part of pre-existing franchises. The gender doesn't matter. If its a comic/fictional character I enjoy, I have things that I'd need to see to support the casting that depend on the character. Gadot has nothing that says WW to me, and several negatives. I think its more likely that Goyer can pull a halfway decent movie out of his butt than seeing Gadot play an acceptable WW, and Goyer hasn't written one good movie with a DC character (he wrote two mediocre ones and two awful ones so far). This isn't like other casting. Gadot is a tiny woman with absolutely no muscle (heck, she barely has anything but skin on her bones). WW isn't someone that can be portrayed as a small, skinny model. It just makes no sense for the character. She's the most well known superheroine in the world. She needs an actress with established acting skills and a build that is not that of a model. Instead, she has an extremely unproven actress who not only is the size of a skinny model but whose biggest roles have included nothing even remotely similar to the WW character.

North Pole Myk wrote: View Post
I like how he thinks the original WW artist, HG Peter and George Perez, who's WW run is thought of as one of the best, some how got Wonder Woman's height wrong. It's also amusing that he seems unaware that the "creepy creator" didn't draw Wonder Woman.
Well, it doesn't really matter. The people who drew her in the Golden age seemed to draw her like they'd draw any woman, fairly small compared to the average guy. Thats not even mentioning the writing, which seemed to often portray her as a typical female stereotype of the era, just with super strength. As for Perez's art, it wasn't the ultimate WW. It was ok, but he'd done better stuff before and after it.

Last edited by kirk55555; December 8 2013 at 03:16 AM.
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Old December 8 2013, 03:17 AM   #266
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Re: Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman In ‘Batman Vs. Superman’

Well I've never seen Wonder Woman drawn with mucsular arms and cetainly not the arms of a body builder. And it's not like Antje Traue is a large woman either and she certainly had a good fight with Supeman in Man Of Steel.
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Old December 8 2013, 03:32 AM   #267
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Re: Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman In ‘Batman Vs. Superman’

Who said she should be a body builder? I've said several times that she shouldn't be. But, you can have a stronger build and not be a body builder. the choices aren't just supermodel scrawny or creepy body builder when it comes to WW.
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Old December 8 2013, 03:53 AM   #268
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Re: Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman In ‘Batman Vs. Superman’

This debate over her body is a bunch of horse shit.

Comapre Christian Bale in the 2004 Machinist to his 2005 appearance in Batman Begins


Chris Pratt before he was cast for Guardians of the Galaxy and what he looks like now.


Chris Hemsworth before and after Thor 2011



Body image is not set in stone. It can change. That's what personal trainers are for.


Edit

With how the New 52 WW is drawn. It won't take much for Gal to bulk up a little to make a believable WW.

Last edited by AllStarEntprise; December 8 2013 at 04:07 AM. Reason: Add picture of New 52 WW and Gal
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Old December 8 2013, 05:04 AM   #269
Guy Gardener
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Re: Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman In ‘Batman Vs. Superman’

I saw a sitcom once, no idea what it was, and I'm quoting verbatim... "Wow! I always thought that I was a bitch, but it turns out that I was just Hungry."
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Old December 8 2013, 05:14 AM   #270
kirk55555
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Re: Gal Gadot cast as Wonder Woman In ‘Batman Vs. Superman’

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
This debate over her body is a bunch of horse shit.

Comapre Christian Bale in the 2004 Machinist to his 2005 appearance in Batman Begins

Edit

With how the New 52 WW is drawn. It won't take much for Gal to bulk up a little to make a believable WW.
Yeah, because those are all similar situations . Except that most of those were actors bulking up for a leading role, not a scrawny model playing a minor character in a superhero movie. She is a living twig, her body isn't going to change enough. She would need to almost double her body size without going all creepy body builder, and put on 4-6 inches of height. Plus, the more I see of her in clips, the more I'm starting to think she's not a very good actress. Then again, her biggest role is eye candy in a mediocre car racing franchise, but she's not exactly making me think she's a particularly good actress with her current work. I see no evidence that she's not just a cheap actress who was brought in for her cheapness and moderate attractiveness, or that she could possibly be a good WW, physically or acting wise.
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